Fishless Cycle, Quick Question.

[matt_99]

Hi all, have tried searching but you try and put tank and cycle in the search, you pickup 50% of all threads!!!

I have a 4ft approx 50 gallon tank i wish to fishless cycle

I also have a 20 gallon that is currently fish in cycling, with low levels of ammonia for the last three days with 20% water changes. I'm leaving that for a couple of days and seeing if the ammonia stays low. Once this has cycled I will add the filter to the 4 ft tank to double up on two smaller filters. I will also be transfering the heater as will need two heaters to maintain temp. I will also be washing the gravel from cycled tank into the 4ft tank.

Question is, do i try and fishless cycle the larger tank at the same time, or just wait for the 20 gallon and then have a few days acclimatising the rest of the tank, bearing in mind i will have to put the danios that are cycling the 20 gal into the 4ft, as all my filters and heaters etc will have to go into it.

I could just half fil the 4 ft, and use one heater, one filter, fishless cycle it then combine once theyre both done?!

Im in a right pickle trying to work out what to do for the best / quickest / safest!

Is it better to cycle a large tank with less water as its easier to do water changes, maintain temp etc, aslong as the filters underwater with all ornaments, should be quicker/more efficient?

Okay, one question, large post, my bad!

Thanks in advance for any help

Matt and Belinda

 

[matt_99]

just another thought, as my 'fish in' cycle is doing well, and we appear to be past the ammonia spike, would it be feasible to transfer filter fish and wash the gravel into the 4ft, but fill with water... spreading the bioload over a greater volume of water so better for the fish, but giving ample oppurtunity for the bacteria and cycle to continue?

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Matt and Belinda,

The almost magical biofilter that we benefit from in the hobby is a fixed thing of nature. If we want to take advantage of it, its a lot easier if we understand our limitations at speeding it up. The two bacterial species are very slow growers and we need billions and billions of their cells. What you are describing are various ways of taking your few thousands or millions of cells and pouring them around in various ways, hoping that that will suddenly transform them into billions of cells! Does that make sense? This is why we talk about bringing in "mature media" from outside, from some other filter that's been running for years. Our own nearly new filters just can't be coaxed into providing billions of cells they don't have.

OK, enough of my attempt at the big picture I think, to me, it sounds like your second post idea of simply moving everything over to the larger tank (when fish and filter are moved together, the progress should stay the same) would get you more direcly where you're going, with less confusion.

The water volume of a tank is significant to a cycle in the following way: The goal of the cycle is to build a stable biofilter for a given amount of fish. The number of fish is determined by our rough "inch of fish body per US gallon" beginners guideline and is called a "full stocking" for a given tank volume. The amount of water you will need to change to maintain the 0.25ppm poison level that we generally go by in the fish-in method won't really change, just the time cycle of the need. If you fill the larger tank you will just have a longer delay before the waste has built back up to the 0.25 concentration level at which it needs be knocked down again. In general, the larger tank volume will be safer for the fish during the fish-in cycle because the rise of ammonia and nitrite to the critical level will be slower and steadier, allowing you more warning. Does that make sense?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[matt_99]

that does make sense. As does your bigger picture description... Thanks for your time!

After much deliberation last night, i decided to fishless cycle the large tank with it only having enough water to cover the tank ornaments. If the 20 gal fully cycles before the fishless one finishes, i will do a mass water change and transfer the 20 gallon, with fishes over and give it the week to settle.

Does this sound reasonable or am i best to fully fishless the large tank and be done with it, regardless of other progress?

Its never simple!

 

[matt_99]

been a bit of a development, ive realised that i can;t afford to stock all at once, so if im only going to be introducing a new group of fish per month, im going ti fish in cycle the 50 gal, with the 20 gal filter etc.

The 20 gal has had 0 ammonia for three days, and 1ppm nitrite for 3 also. Despite my best efforts to put plenty of food in over the weekend.

Going to mass water change the 50 gal as plenty of floating crap has emerged, get water up to temp, siphon the 20 gal water into the 50 gal, put the ornaments in, put the fish, then go from there. Give it till the end of this month to restabilise and then go get some dalmation and silver lyretail mollys!

Next to sort my stocking list!

Been to lfs today and picjked out some that i liked the look of... my fish to research (feel free to comment here!)

red neon male guppy's
metallic sunset platy
silver lyre and dalmation mollys
coral red platy
rumy nose tetrra
red phantom tetra
Various cories....

 

[waterdrop]

You have discovered the frustrations of trying to fishless cycle with fishfood. We hear this often.

Since you already have fish in your smaller tank and are performing a fish-in cycle, it does seem reasonable to want to just move it all to the larger tank and continue the fish-in cycle there with the larger volume. The larger volume will make it a little safer for the fish as you may be able to see the poisons approaching the 0.25ppm mark sooner and take action before their gills and nerves are as badly damaged.

Keep on top of it with regular 12-hour test sets, logging your results. You will need to play a little game of figuring out the correct pattern of water changes that will keep that ammonia and nitrite below the 0.25ppm line. You can use both the size of the water change and the frequency of when you do them to help you establish an effective pattern that will carry you through the month or two it will take to grow the beneficial bacteria. Good luck! It can be a lot of water changing sometimes!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[matt_99]

ive spent the last two weeks doing daily 50% changes... Not bothered m, the novelty hasn't worn off yet!

Thanks for your advice.

Matt

 

[Joe97]

For stocking my tank I go to the pet shop about once a month and buy up to about 1/4> of my maximum stocking level, if there's space of course. If you want thoughts on the stocking levels and species compatibility you could try an online community creator, but I'm unsure as to if they are reliable, but they could provide a good guide-line...

 

[matt_99]

ive used aqadvisor to check bits... Theres just always another different fish you'd want to add in!

Thanks

 

[Joe97]

I know what you mean I'll probs post a thread asking for which online community creator is da most accurate

 

[matt_99]

that'd be good... ive got a stock list thread going... have a look and see what you think!

 

[Joe97]

Nice, I'll have a look