Fish TB?

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Stargazee

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I have been losing a fish every couple of months. I have 9 mbuna fish left (previously a chaos tank but do not want to introduce any more fish until this is solved), and a pleco in a 55 gallon with a FluvalSmart 706. I have 3 plants and barely any nitrates, 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, ph 8.2. I rotate and recharge Purigen and carbon matrix and 1/4 water changes weekly with Sea Chem Prime.
Symptoms Include wasting away and fin degeneration. Some had lumps toward their back, 1 appeared to be blind but could have been from a bully? The blue one is currently swimming vertically nose up. None lost appetite. They eat Northfin veggie, repashy, cucumber, zucchini, peas red and green seaweed. I will include pics (dead orange one has white dots, that's just sand). Orange live one has a bump on mouth but also has been fighting a lot. Also if you look at my old post I had a pic of a Snow White that died with the same wasting. Please help!
 

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Hmmmm. I'm trying to think if it's TB or wasting disease.
If it's wasting disease (internal parasites) you have a really solid option in API General Cure.
@Colin_T ?
 
Hmmmm. I'm trying to think if it's TB or wasting disease.
If it's wasting disease (internal parasites) you have a really solid option in API General Cure.
@Colin_T ?
At 1 point I was putting General Cure with their food. I have some on hand and could try dosing the whole tank with that.
 
At 1 point I was putting General Cure with their food. I have some on hand and could try dosing the whole tank with that.
It's good you have it on hand. I don't think feeding it to them like that was the best course of action, but I could see where you were coming from. I'd wait till you get colins opinion before doing anything.
 
It could be intestinal worms, an intestinal protozoan infection or bullying.

What does their poop look like?

Did any of them bloat/ balloon up before they died?
 
It could be intestinal worms, an intestinal protozoan infection or bullying.

What does their poop look like?



Did any of them bloat/ balloon up before they died?

The poop looks normal except occasionally I see long white feces in the tank. They do not bloat up before they die.
 
There doesn't seem to be a lot of protein in there diet. Try them on some blood worms or tubifex.
 
Don't give Mbunas bloodworms or Tubifex because they bloat up if the food isn't clean.
You can offer them mozzie larvae, brineshrimp, daphnia and prawn/ shrimp a few times a week, in addition to whatever they normally get.

-----------------
Fish that produce white poop and lose weight either have worms or an internal protozoan infection. If they die within a week or two of doing the white poop it's usually protozoan. If they lose weight over a period of months and do white poop during that time, it's intestinal worms. See below for more info on fish doing white poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons.
1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be cured because massive internal organ failure has already occurred.


-----
2) Internal Protozoan Infections cause the fish to lose weight rapidly (over a week or two), fish continues to eat and swim around but not as much as normal, does stringy white poop. If not treated the fish dies a week or so after these symptoms appear. Metronidazole normally works well for this.

There is a medication (API General Cure) that contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole.

It's interesting that API and the Californian government have listed Metronidazole as a carcinogen. That's a concern considering it was widely used to treat intestinal infections in people.

Anyway, if you use this or any medication, handle with care, don't ingest or inhale the medication, and wash hands with soapy water after treating the fish or working in the tank.


-----
3) Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, and do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with a bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.
You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment.

Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.
 
Don't give Mbunas bloodworms or Tubifex because they bloat up if the food isn't clean.
You can offer them mozzie larvae, brineshrimp, daphnia and prawn/ shrimp a few times a week, in addition to whatever they normally get.

-----------------
Fish that produce white poop and lose weight either have worms or an internal protozoan infection. If they die within a week or two of doing the white poop it's usually protozoan. If they lose weight over a period of months and do white poop during that time, it's intestinal worms. See below for more info on fish doing white poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons.
1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be cured because massive internal organ failure has already occurred.


-----
2) Internal Protozoan Infections cause the fish to lose weight rapidly (over a week or two), fish continues to eat and swim around but not as much as normal, does stringy white poop. If not treated the fish dies a week or so after these symptoms appear. Metronidazole normally works well for this.

There is a medication (API General Cure) that contains Praziquantel and Metronidazole.

It's interesting that API and the Californian government have listed Metronidazole as a carcinogen. That's a concern considering it was widely used to treat intestinal infections in people.

Anyway, if you use this or any medication, handle with care, don't ingest or inhale the medication, and wash hands with soapy water after treating the fish or working in the tank.


-----
3) Intestinal Worms like tapeworm and threadworms cause the fish to lose weight, continue eating and swimming normally, and do a stringy white poop. Fish can do this for months and not be too badly affected. In some cases, fish with a bad worm infestation will actually gain weight and get fat and look like a pregnant guppy. This is due to the huge number of worms inside the fish.

You can use Praziquantel to treat tapeworm and gill flukes. And Levamisole to treat thread/ round worms. If you can't find these medications, look for Flubendazole, which treats both lots of worms.

Remove carbon from filters before treatment and increase aeration/ surface turbulence to maximise oxygen levels in the water.

You treat the fish once a week for 4 weeks. The first treatment will kill any worms in the fish. The second, third and forth treatments kill any baby worms that hatch from eggs inside the fish's digestive tract.

Treat every fish tank in the house at the same time to prevent cross contamination.
You do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean 24-48 hours after treatment.

Clean the filter 24 hours after treatment too.

Do not use the 2 medications together. If you want to treat both medications in a short space of time, use Praziquantel on day one. Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate on day 2 & 3. Treat the tank with Levamisole on day 4 and do a 75% water change and gravel clean on day 5, 6 & 7 and then start with Praziquantel again on day 8.

The water changes will remove most of the medication so you don't overdose the fish the next time you treat them. The gravel cleaning will suck out any worms and eggs that have been expelled by the fish. Repeating the treatment for 3-4 doses at weekly intervals will kill any worms that hatch from eggs. At the end of the treatment you will have healthier fish.
Thank you! I have white crushed coral sand....should I vacuum it or throw it out and replace?
 
Why would you chuck it out?

Just gravel clean it when you do a water change.
 
Why would you chuck it out?

Just gravel clean it when you do a water change.
Colin: I treated with general cure, vacuumed, did the water changes, repeated. That orange fish got worse and worse and still ate. Then she swelled up like a balloon, face everything (see pics). Then 2 days later she stopped eating and died. Do you think this is an internal bacterial infection then?
 

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The fish either had an internal bacterial infection, which caused its death (sudden bloating followed by death), or it had internal organ failure, but this is uncommon and usually caused by an internal infection too. Internal bacterial infections kill fish quickly so it had something else going on as well.

Did you change its diet just before this happened or has the food been the same as normal?

Are you washing/ peeling the fresh fruit/ veg before feeding them?
Is the food coming from a shop or are you growing it yourself?

What is the GH and KH of the water?

Are you using mains water or water from a well?

Do you have buckets for the fish only or do you use any buckets from around the house?
 
I think the Purigen could well be your problem since this is described as a product that effectively replaces the natural processes of regular filter media to remove ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The product appears to be rechargeable by applying bleach. If you somehow have not removed all that bleach this could be killing any remaining beneficial filter bacteria that you have. You could also be dealing with spikes in ammonia and nitrite if the Purigen is not recharged or has expired.

If I were you I would immediately stop using Purigen, do a large water change to remove any bleach remnants and treat for a bacterial infection. Water life Myxazin is the best treatment for bloating and fin rot/tearing.
 

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