fish mysteriously dying with no visible symptoms? help would be appreciated.

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Navfish

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My guppy was perfectly fine the day before he died, when I got back home, I saw dead on the bottom of the aquarium. There were no signs of damage or anything and looked like he recently died. He was around 1 years old and was from Petsmart. However, I accidentally cranked up the heat to 81 so maybe that affected it? I immediately turned it down to 78

Ammonia levels were 0 and nitrite as well

I did a water change the night before and cleaned the sand of debris.

Maybe not enough oxygen???
 
Do you have a filter that disturbs the surface of the water? If so, there will be enough oxygen. Unless there is another factor of course, like chemicals or salt which, combined with heat, can deplete oxygen?
It's impossible to say what caused the death. Are all the other fish doing well?
 
Do you have a filter that disturbs the surface of the water? If so, there will be enough oxygen. Unless there is another factor of course, like chemicals or salt which, combined with heat, can deplete oxygen?
It's impossible to say what caused the death. Are all the other fish doing well?
Yes I have a filter plus 2 air pumps at the top of the surface ( the pumps I added tdy after not using them for a week or so)

No chemicals in the tank

The answer to the last question is no. I added 6 neon tetras into the tank but then one of the new tetras died the next day (most likely because I dropped him on the floor while putting the tetras into the net)
After I wrote this post today, I looked back and saw another one of the tetras dead, white a big hole in the front (maybe someone took a bite?)

So…3 fish dead within 24 hours

Here’s a pic of the tank and the filter is on the side and you can see the air pumps
 

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If you added new fish, most likely it's due to disease.

Another possibility is your heater malfunctions and becomes too hot but it will affect all fish and not just a 1-2 fish.
 
If you added new fish, most likely it's due to disease.

Another possibility is your heater malfunctions and becomes too hot but it will affect all fish and not just a 1-2 fish.
another one of my fish died (it was a black molly) and like the other guppy, there were no signs of disease. I've come to the realization that this is something my new neon tetras transmitted to my other fish. My water parameters have been normal with no ammonia or nitrite. All the other fish are acting okay but is it bacterial or parasitic since there are no visible symptoms? I have no clue what to do... Should I treat the tank with a broad-spectrum fish medication and if I should..what type?

I never answered this but here's the official stocking:
1x juvenile angelfish
10x neon tetras
4x ornate tetras
3x black mollies
1x guppy (moved him to another tank)
They have lived peacefully and since adding the neon tetras a couple days ago, my tank has been a nightmare :(

What I have done after each fish death is a water change 50% and today, I cleaned my filter with old tank water. Should I keep doing water changes and how much/frequently?
 
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More background data will help members help you. How long have you had this tank with fish (you mention a year for the guppy, but please confirm the tank age)? Are water changes regular, and how much (normally). Water changes will not cause fish deaths, unless obviously there is something in the water, and doing one at any sign of trouble is usually advisable.

What are the parameters, which refer to GH (hardness), pH and KH (Alkalinity)? These can affect fish.

The increase in temperature is not likely causing deaths, but having said that, neon tetra are cooler water tropicals and 81F is not going to help them. Was there are reason you increased the temperature?

What substances are you adding to the water; include conditioner and any others.

As for treating with some medication...absolutely not. Only if you are reasonably certain of the issue should medications be used. These two can cause more harm than good, especially if useless for the problem.

The neons I agree seem to be the issue here. It may well be something they are carrying. Another thing could be the angelfish which naturally predate neons and similar linear fish. Have you seen any interactions? How large is the angelfish?
 
More background data will help members help you. How long have you had this tank with fish (you mention a year for the guppy, but please confirm the tank age)? Are water changes regular, and how much (normally). Water changes will not cause fish deaths, unless obviously there is something in the water, and doing one at any sign of trouble is usually advisable.

What are the parameters, which refer to GH (hardness), pH and KH (Alkalinity)? These can affect fish.

The increase in temperature is not likely causing deaths, but having said that, neon tetra are cooler water tropicals and 81F is not going to help them. Was there are reason you increased the temperature?

What substances are you adding to the water; include conditioner and any others.

As for treating with some medication...absolutely not. Only if you are reasonably certain of the issue should medications be used. These two can cause more harm than good, especially if useless for the problem.

The neons I agree seem to be the issue here. It may well be something they are carrying. Another thing could be the angelfish which naturally predate neons and similar linear fish. Have you seen any interactions? How large is the angelfish?
I have had this fish tank for about 5 months now and I do normal water changes...25% twice a week. PH is around 7.5-8 but I highly doubt this was the reason. IDK the GH and KH but I have had these fish for over 4 months and they have been fine since.

The tempature is about 77.5 right now and the reason it went so high was because I had the fluval heater which has a in between range of 76-81 and I accidently put it to 81.

I use tetra dechlorinator each time and the fish don't seem to mind it as I used it for the guppys for a year.

The angelfish isn't the issue as he is quite docile. he is more concerned about the plants and wood in my tank than the other smaller fish! But he hasn't had any issue of him biting or attacking other fish in the tank. He isn't even that agressive towards other fish during eating. So we can rule him out. He is still a juevile but heres a pic in comparison to the other fish.
 

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OK, that helps by dealing with issues that could contribute. Heat issue is OK, a temporary rise like summer heat waves are generally manageable by fish, I was just wondering why the temp went so high. No problem here.

I would advise that you track down the GH and KH, check the website of your water authority. This is critical for some fish, and you have mollies requiring harder water than some of the others, so the number especially of the GH is important. A problematic GH can cause fish to weaken slowly, and it can take months sometimes. And when they die, without a necropsy there are no obvious symptoms.

The neons do seem the likely problem. Do you know if the neons left in the store are OK, or all dead?
 
OK, that helps by dealing with issues that could contribute. Heat issue is OK, a temporary rise like summer heat waves are generally manageable by fish, I was just wondering why the temp went so high. No problem here.

I would advise that you track down the GH and KH, check the website of your water authority. This is critical for some fish, and you have mollies requiring harder water than some of the others, so the number especially of the GH is important. A problematic GH can cause fish to weaken slowly, and it can take months sometimes. And when they die, without a necropsy there are no obvious symptoms.

The neons do seem the likely problem. Do you know if the neons left in the store are OK, or all dead?
Just called and they said they had no massive die-off. 2 neon tetras died today. I've lost more than 6 fish now :( I wish I never bought the diseased fish
 
Please post photos of the remaining fish.
I will once I get back home

but what I noticed with the fish that died, they experience some symptoms an hour before dying. They either hide in the back or at the top, breathing rapidly, and struggling to swim normally. Then they pass within the hour. One of the mollies that died yesterday had somewhat inflamed gills when looking at im from the surface, but since it was a black molly, I don't know if it was red.

However, all of the remaining fish are acting normally and are not showing any symptoms but still keep on dying randomly.

The dead fish also showed no physical signs.

I decided to take out all the neon tetras and put them in a separate quarantine tank (there is 4 remaining tetras) out of 12

In the main tank there are only 7 remaining fish:

1x angelfish
4x peppermint tetras
2x mollies

All will be posted pictures at around 3:15 pm
 
The biggest problem we have with keeping fish is disease diagnosis. It is hard even when there are symptoms and almost impossible when there are none.

I could make a guess here but there would be little point. I do know that there are strains of columnaris that are quite virulent which means they kill fast and usually before there are aby symptoms one can see without a microscope. Many strains of this disease produce visable symptoms and can be way less virulent. however, this is just one such disease that can kill wihout there being symptoms.

However, the one thing that would argue against this being the cause is that it will kill most species in a tank not just one or two.

Neon tetra disease usually shows symptoms and takes some time to kill. Despite it's name it can be harmful/fatal to other species. This disease is caused by a parasite and there is still no known cure.

While I agree with Byron about not treating without knowing exactly what the problem is, sometimes there is no other option. One has to make a best guess and go with it. This stage is normally reached when fish continue dying in a tank. Then the options appear that doing nothing means they all will die v.s. taking your best shot. If one is wrong and they pretty much all die anyway. But if the best shot is the right decision, fish may be saved. This is not the same thign as no knowing and having time to determine what is wrong.

One important factor is how many of one's fish appear to be infected and are dying. I wish I could offer something more substantive here.

Water changes are great but the are not a cure-all by any means. Also, most nasty bacteria do best in warmer water and water which is not an acid pH. Unfortunately, these sort of things cannot be used with fish which do not do well in acid and/or cooler water. I have treated discus in 90+F water but I would never put them into say 72F water. Similarly, I would not try to treat a goldfish in those discus temps.

Often the way to diagnose and treat fish is in a hospital tank. This should be bare bottom and have a few fake plants. You need an airsrtone and heater but not a cycled filter. Instead you will do a lot of water changes. You only want things in an H tank you can bleach afterwards if the fish dies. Anything you cannot bleach must be thrown out. You can run a filter for circulation and to catch debris, but the media may have to be discarded in the end. This is why I do not use a cycled filter as I hate to have to discard good bacteria. Also, some meds will kill off the bacteria and you are back at square one re keeping the water healthy.

The reason for the bare bottom and minimal decor is to it is easy to observe the patient(s) but a few fake plants allow then to hide some which is a stress reducer. A bright ligh should not be ued and regualr water changes are needed. Depending on the tank size and the number of fish in it, either daily or every other day water changes should be done. If the fish are eating excess food is to be removed after about 5 minutes. Finally, when doing water changes on an H tank you often are lso dosing meds which need to be ay a specific level in the water.

If the water changes done in lieu of filtration and a med dosing are on the same day, do the water change and then dose the med. If the water change is done on a non-dosing day, you still need to replace the med that the water change removed. So a 50% change means add back a 1/2 dose of the med, etc.

The bare bottom tanks lets you seetwo things. You can observe the poop from the fish and you can often spot parasites that may be expelled. So before vacuuming, check the tank bottom and the fake plants. Do this every day onccce or more times even when you do not vacuum.
 
The biggest problem we have with keeping fish is disease diagnosis. It is hard even when there are symptoms and almost impossible when there are none.

I could make a guess here but there would be little point. I do know that there are strains of columnaris that are quite virulent which means they kill fast and usually before there are aby symptoms one can see without a microscope. Many strains of this disease produce visable symptoms and can be way less virulent. however, this is just one such disease that can kill wihout there being symptoms.

However, the one thing that would argue against this being the cause is that it will kill most species in a tank not just one or two.

Neon tetra disease usually shows symptoms and takes some time to kill. Despite it's name it can be harmful/fatal to other species. This disease is caused by a parasite and there is still no known cure.

While I agree with Byron about not treating without knowing exactly what the problem is, sometimes there is no other option. One has to make a best guess and go with it. This stage is normally reached when fish continue dying in a tank. Then the options appear that doing nothing means they all will die v.s. taking your best shot. If one is wrong and they pretty much all die anyway. But if the best shot is the right decision, fish may be saved. This is not the same thign as no knowing and having time to determine what is wrong.

One important factor is how many of one's fish appear to be infected and are dying. I wish I could offer something more substantive here.

Water changes are great but the are not a cure-all by any means. Also, most nasty bacteria do best in warmer water and water which is not an acid pH. Unfortunately, these sort of things cannot be used with fish which do not do well in acid and/or cooler water. I have treated discus in 90+F water but I would never put them into say 72F water. Similarly, I would not try to treat a goldfish in those discus temps.

Often the way to diagnose and treat fish is in a hospital tank. This should be bare bottom and have a few fake plants. You need an airsrtone and heater but not a cycled filter. Instead you will do a lot of water changes. You only want things in an H tank you can bleach afterwards if the fish dies. Anything you cannot bleach must be thrown out. You can run a filter for circulation and to catch debris, but the media may have to be discarded in the end. This is why I do not use a cycled filter as I hate to have to discard good bacteria. Also, some meds will kill off the bacteria and you are back at square one re keeping the water healthy.

The reason for the bare bottom and minimal decor is to it is easy to observe the patient(s) but a few fake plants allow then to hide some which is a stress reducer. A bright ligh should not be ued and regualr water changes are needed. Depending on the tank size and the number of fish in it, either daily or every other day water changes should be done. If the fish are eating excess food is to be removed after about 5 minutes. Finally, when doing water changes on an H tank you often are lso dosing meds which need to be ay a specific level in the water.

If the water changes done in lieu of filtration and a med dosing are on the same day, do the water change and then dose the med. If the water change is done on a non-dosing day, you still need to replace the med that the water change removed. So a 50% change means add back a 1/2 dose of the med, etc.

The bare bottom tanks lets you seetwo things. You can observe the poop from the fish and you can often spot parasites that may be expelled. So before vacuuming, check the tank bottom and the fake plants. Do this every day onccce or more times even when you do not vacuum.
Thanks for you taking some time of your day in helping me.

I do feel like I have to do somethjng or else I feel like I am just watching my fish die.

Do you think I should dose like parasite medication like paracleanse or something like kanaplex?

Yes, I will continue doing frequent water changes and try to monitor my fish more closely
 
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I concur with post #13, but I would consider metronidazole in the food before I would start dumping "medications" in the tank. Twice I had mysterious die-offs (after adding new fish, lesson learned about a quarantine!) and following the advice of a marine biologist I knew on another forum used metronidazole. She said it is much more effective if taken with food, so I prepared flake and pellet food and fed it exclusively for ten days. Both times the fish deaths did stop. She suspected some sort of internal protozoan which would only be identified with a necropsy, by which I mean no external sympstoms other than a fish suddenly having trouble swimming and dying quickly.
 

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