Fish keeping - a steep learning curve…

[NannaLou]

I can’t even begin to think about everything I’ve learnt (either totally new knowledge, or a better understanding of existing knowledge) since I’ve been on this forum. So of the knowledge has been as a result of specific questions to solve an issue, some of it has been through ‘incidental’ comments in the many and varied threads.

My ‘totally new knowledge’ would have to be that you need to cycle a tank…

My ‘incidental’ knowledge is that the fuzzy stuff on the floor of my tank (that I was struggling to describe to find an answer in Google as I do try and find something out before coming here for a trusted answer) is mulm thanks to an article posted by @AbbeysDad.

And one piece of learning I’m now questioning is, “what are water parameters?” My thoughts from the many replies to many posts were they were the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate readings, but in a thread that mentioned adding parameters to our signatures it seems that these might be conditions?

I’m intrigued to find out what others have learnt and possibly an answer to the parameters question.

 

[Essjay]

Most people use the terms interchangeably but strictly speaking -
parameters - temperature, GH, KH, pH
conditions - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate

The way I think of it is that parameters are what are measured in the places the fish originally came from so we know what fish are suitable for our tanks/water; conditions are things that occur in fish tanks which can harm fish in excess. Yes there will be ammonia etc in rivers and lakes but in such tiny amounts that they are undetectable (except for polluted waters of course)

 

[Colin_T]

I use parameters for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, but I use water chemistry for pH, GH & KH.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Parameters are defined by the Oxford Dictionary as;

noun
plural noun: parameters

1. 
   
2. 
   
3. 1.
   TECHNICAL
   a numerical or other measurable factor forming one of a set that defines a system or sets the conditions of its operation.
   "there are three parameters by which a speaker is able to modify the meaning of the utterance—pitch, volume, and tempo"
   
   2.
   a limit or boundary which defines the scope of a particular process or activity.
   "the parameters within which the media work"
   
   
   
   
   I'm happy enough to include ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings as 'parameters'. Parameters tend to be objective in nature. 'Conditions', on the other hand, tend to be more descriptive and can vary, according to the person describing them. If you asked someone to describe the condition of their fish, or tank, you'd usually get a load of adjectives, most of which will be subjective to the person giving the description.
   

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Most people use the terms interchangeably but strictly speaking -
parameters - temperature, GH, KH, pH
conditions - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate

The way I think of it is that parameters are what are measured in the places the fish originally came from so we know what fish are suitable for our tanks/water; conditions are things that occur in fish tanks which can harm fish in excess. Yes there will be ammonia etc in rivers and lakes but in such tiny amounts that they are undetectable (except for polluted waters of course)

I'm now curious as to when and where this law originated. I know it isn't a Law as such, but you say it with such certainty, it almost implies it should be.

Way back, there were successful aquarists and not-so successful aquarists. Whilst we, as a fish-keeping population, are now increasingly aware of the science behind the successes, back in the day, many successful aquarists were not so aware of the actual science. Some even made the science up to account for their successes, but many more attributed it to the 'art' of fish-keeping.
I believe that the 'art' is still prevalent within the hobby, as evidenced by those apparently successful fish-keepers who say that they've never formally cycled a tank, or acclimatised fish, etc.. (I accept that some of these are actually talking shoemakers, but I've met enough in The Real to know that some still exist).
Two things in common, amongst all of those who I have known to demonstrate the art of successful fishkeeping;

1. Patience.
2. Empathy for the fish.

As a population of fishkeepers, we do create our own language and jargon and, because we are so varied in our interest and backgrounds, it is inevitable that some words and phrases will differ, whilst describing the same thing.

Edited for grammar.

 

[Essjay]

It's like schooling and shoaling, there are definitions somewhere but everyone uses them interchangeably. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else.

There are words which mean one thing to the world in general but have a highly specific meaning in a particular job, and only those working in that job use the words in the specialist context. I suspect that parameters/conditions come in this category - those working in the field of ichthyology use them to define specific things but everyone else uses both words for both things.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

It's like schooling and shoaling, there are definitions somewhere but everyone uses them interchangeably. I'm as guilty of that as anyone else.

There are words which mean one thing to the world in general but have a highly specific meaning in a particular job, and only those working in that job use the words in the specialist context. I suspect that parameters/conditions come in this category - those working in the field of ichthyology use them to define specific things but everyone else uses both words for both things.

From a biologists point of view, I was taught that shoaling is simply grouping together, whereas schooling is actually swimming together.
In my tank, for example, the black neon and glowlight tetras do tend to shoal together, but only seem to school when chasing a frozen food cube around the tank. My golden pencilfish will shoal, but seem to prefer being distributed around the tank, likewise my pgmy corys. However, when the pencils decide to school, the pygmys join them.

 

[Essjay]

That is what I mean by shoaling and schooling as well, but many people use the word schooling when they mean 'a fish that needs to live in a group'



While typing in another thread it occurred to me that the word cycling has a very specific meaning to fish keepers. To everyone else it means riding a bicycle (and we use it that way as well).

 

[noobfish]

"a numerical or other measurable factor forming one of a set that defines a system or sets the conditions of its operation"

I consider pH, GH, KH as parameters, defining the system which we work within.

Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate I consider conditions as these can change at any given time (ie. what are the current conditions of the tank). An ammonia spike wouldn't be a parameter, but rather a condition.

Temperature could really be in either. You set it as a parameter for the species you intend to keep, but it can fluctuate and be adjusted to suit a condition (see Ich).

 

[ClownLurch]

I can’t even begin to think about everything I’ve learnt (either totally new knowledge, or a better understanding of existing knowledge) since I’ve been on this forum. So of the knowledge has been as a result of specific questions to solve an issue, some of it has been through ‘incidental’ comments in the many and varied threads.

My ‘totally new knowledge’ would have to be that you need to cycle a tank…

My ‘incidental’ knowledge is that the fuzzy stuff on the floor of my tank (that I was struggling to describe to find an answer in Google as I do try and find something out before coming here for a trusted answer) is mulm thanks to an article posted by @AbbeysDad.

And one piece of learning I’m now questioning is, “what are water parameters?” My thoughts from the many replies to many posts were they were the Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate readings, but in a thread that mentioned adding parameters to our signatures it seems that these might be conditions?

I’m intrigued to find out what others have learnt and possibly an answer to the parameters question.

Have a trawl through this places “ back pages” by inputting a fish or plant or whatever into the search function. There’s ten years plus of knowledge/nonsense/bickering in there from the current faces and a few who’ve not been seen on here for years.
It can often save asking a question that’s been asked countless times before.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Have a trawl through this places “ back pages” by inputting a fish or plant or whatever into the search function. There’s ten years plus of knowledge/nonsense/bickering in there from the current faces and a few who’ve not been seen on here for years.
It can often save asking a question that’s been asked countless times before.

I did that and found that some answers that were considered correct some time ago are no longer deemed correct today. Any 'old' question asked today should get a contemporary answer.

 

[AbbeysDad]

When we think of parameters we most often think of ammonia, nitrItes, nitrAtes, gH and kH. However these are merely the parameters we can currently a test for. However, there are many other parameters and pollutants we simply cannot test for.
There is a wealth of knowledge in books and who could forget the mystical magical Internet. Although you must take everything with a grain of salt (as there are many pervasive, parroted myths), there's a ton of good information not only in text but also in YouTube videos concerning the tropical fish hobby.
I have many articles on my blog. I invite you to check out Newer Hobbyist Primer as well as the many other articles about fishkeeping. These are articles that I've written after 50 plus years in the hobby, plus articles written by Greg Sage of Select Aquatics of Erie Colorado as well as my friend, our own beloved Byron.
There's also a treasure trove of selected YouTube videos.

 

[NannaLou]

Thank you all for your inputs, as most often on here there are many variations on a theme, and all when read individually very plausible…now to chose the one that will become the “one version of the truth”…