Fish in cycle question

[strangeworld2002]

Well the 3 guppies i put in have been getting fed sparingly once or twice a day too. I have been dosing with Seachem Stability but it doesn't work that fast. The media was all new apart from some that I used 10 years ago, but the plants came with rockwool and i left some in the tank. Ill keep up what Im doing and add a few more fish this weekend. Just a couple and continue to monitor.

 

[Essjay]

The tank may be cycled, but it is only cycled for 3 guppies. Adding more fish means more ammonia and the bacteria have to grow more to deal with the ammonia and the nitrite made from it. Adding a couple more fish is OK, but not a lot more. As the number of fish increases, the numbers of bacteria increase and it is safe then to add bigger batches of fish.
It is always sensible to check ammonia and nitrite levels for a few days after adding new fish until you are certain ammonia ad nitrite are staying at zero.

If you intend shoaling fish, it is better to add the whole shoal together, so leave those till the numbers in the tank have increased enough for the bacteria to cope with that many fish in one go.

 

[strangeworld2002]

The tank may be cycled, but it is only cycled for 3 guppies. Adding more fish means more ammonia and the bacteria have to grow more to deal with the ammonia and the nitrite made from it. Adding a couple more fish is OK, but not a lot more. As the number of fish increases, the numbers of bacteria increase and it is safe then to add bigger batches of fish.
It is always sensible to check ammonia and nitrite levels for a few days after adding new fish until you are certain ammonia ad nitrite are staying at zero.

If you intend shoaling fish, it is better to add the whole shoal together, so leave those till the numbers in the tank have increased enough for the bacteria to cope with that many fish in one go.

Absolutely thats my intention. I'm not rushing anything and I do want some shoaling fish later down the line but want to add them at the same time.

 

[strangeworld2002]

It looks as though the plants were masking things when it came to the tests anyway. I had crypts in there but I had to take them all out they were a mess, it wasn't melt they were just ruined. Still got the Java Ferns. Anyway test tonight showed 0.25ppm of ammonia, 0 nitrite and 5ppm of nitrate.

 

[strangeworld2002]

Ok so as an update its been almost 2 weeks. I have 4 guppies in the tank, there is anubias, java fern and java moss in the tank, fish are getting fed twice a day but only small amounts. I am dosing with Seachem Prime daily to ensure that any ammonia is detoxified but remains in the tank for any bacteria and Seachem Stability to add bacteria. Ammonia has been pretty consistent on readings of between 0.25 and 0.5ppm, no nitrites and 5ppm of nitrates although the nitrates have been present from day one. My concern at the moment is PH as it is reading 6 which according to API could actually be lower as that is the lowest reading it gives. This worries me as it can prevent cycling.

I have tested the PH of the tap water and its between 7.2 and 7.6 so I don't know why it would drop so low. According to Seachem both Prime and Stability do not affect PH.

Should I buy something fast to raise it? Fish seem happy no signs of stress or anything, all eating well.

 

[Byron]

Lots to deal with here. First, do not use Prime except when adding fresh water. This is absolutely not good for the fish. And, it will not help anyway, that is not how it works. It is actually doing more harm than good when dosed like this, there are chemicals in this you really do not want. Ammonia at 0.25 really is not much of a concern, we have had several members with this ongoing. The plants mentioned are slow growers, but I still would not fuss over this.

Stability is not helping and again it is just more chemicals or whatever it contains. It does not contain the nitrifying bacteria.

The pH. This is probably normal and to be expected, but we need to know the who;le parameter story. The pH is closely tied to the GH and KH. What are these levels of your source water? Check the website of the water supplier. And when testing tap water pH, you need toensure the CO2 is outgassed as this can give a false reading though not likely here as the pH woyld be higher after 24 hours but still worth remembering. Related, is the water authority adding anything to raise pH? This happens in North America, not sure if the UK follow, but again worth knowing.

It is normal for the water to become acidic as fish are fed and the organics accumulate and are broken down. CO2 is produced, which creates carbonic acid and the pH lowers. The extent to which this will occur, including how low it will get, depends entirely upon the GH and KH, along with things like dissolved CO2. But wee need to know the numbers for the GH and KH to pin this down.

Twice daily is twice too much food for fish that are not young fry. These fish could go one, two, even three weeks without any food being added and would be fine. Not suggesting you do this, but it does illustrate why we feed minimally. Fish do not need a lot of food energy because they do not create their internal heat, which is what takes energy.

 

[strangeworld2002]

Lots to deal with here. First, do not use Prime except when adding fresh water. This is absolutely not good for the fish. And, it will not help anyway, that is not how it works. It is actually doing more harm than good when dosed like this, there are chemicals in this you really do not want. Ammonia at 0.25 really is not much of a concern, we have had several members with this ongoing. The plants mentioned are slow growers, but I still would not fuss over this.

Stability is not helping and again it is just more chemicals or whatever it contains. It does not contain the nitrifying bacteria.

The pH. This is probably normal and to be expected, but we need to know the who;le parameter story. The pH is closely tied to the GH and KH. What are these levels of your source water? Check the website of the water supplier. And when testing tap water pH, you need toensure the CO2 is outgassed as this can give a false reading though not likely here as the pH woyld be higher after 24 hours but still worth remembering. Related, is the water authority adding anything to raise pH? This happens in North America, not sure if the UK follow, but again worth knowing.

It is normal for the water to become acidic as fish are fed and the organics accumulate and are broken down. CO2 is produced, which creates carbonic acid and the pH lowers. The extent to which this will occur, including how low it will get, depends entirely upon the GH and KH, along with things like dissolved CO2. But wee need to know the numbers for the GH and KH to pin this down.

Twice daily is twice too much food for fish that are not young fry. These fish could go one, two, even three weeks without any food being added and would be fine. Not suggesting you do this, but it does illustrate why we feed minimally. Fish do not need a lot of food energy because they do not create their internal heat, which is what takes energy.

All united utilities are giving me is mod. Soft water and 6.86 hardness clarke.

 

[Byron]

All united utilities are giving me is mod. Soft water and 6.86 hardness clarke.

Clark 6.86 equals GH of 5.5 dH. This is one unit the hobby uses, the other is ppm which would be 98 ppm. This is certainly soft water. As I expected. We don't have the KH, but it tends to match the GH (there are always exceptions, but this is normal) so that means soft water with an expected low buffering pH capacity. Therefore, what I explained in my previous post is absolutely normal and to be expected.

Now, guppies are livebearers, and livebearers generally do better in water that is harder than this. However, guppies are not as delicate as some would be and might be OK here. I'll tag one of our members @emeraldking who frankly I consider an authority when it comes to livebearers, he can provide his insight.

Another option would be to consider the hundreds of soft water species that would absolutely thrive in this water. And I do mean thrive. Being a 100 liter tank though does have space limitations. But there are many "nano" soft water fish species.

BTW, there is a "Calculator" link on the right side of the screen that allows you to calculate several parameters and tank sizes. Very helpful.

 

[strangeworld2002]

Clark 6.86 equals GH of 5.5 dH. This is one unit the hobby uses, the other is ppm which would be 98 ppm. This is certainly soft water. As I expected. We don't have the KH, but it tends to match the GH (there are always exceptions, but this is normal) so that means soft water with an expected low buffering pH capacity. Therefore, what I explained in my previous post is absolutely normal and to be expected.

Now, guppies are livebearers, and livebearers generally do better in water that is harder than this. However, guppies are not as delicate as some would be and might be OK here. I'll tag one of our members @emeraldking who frankly I consider an authority when it comes to livebearers, he can provide his insight.

Another option would be to consider the hundreds of soft water species that would absolutely thrive in this water. And I do mean thrive. Being a 100 liter tank though does have space limitations. But there are many "nano" soft water fish species.

BTW, there is a "Calculator" link on the right side of the screen that allows you to calculate several parameters and tank sizes. Very helpful.

Thank you so much.

 

[Essjay]

United Utilities does give your KH - they call it alkalinity

I assume you've found the page which gives the hardness in words and deg Clarke and the supply zone in a grey box?
Below that are tables headed summary and full, summary is loaded as default. Switch to full and the third item down is "alkalinity as CaCO3" - that's KH. Tell us what the number is in the average column, please.

 

[emeraldking]

Now, guppies are livebearers, and livebearers generally do better in water that is harder than this. However, guppies are not as delicate as some would be and might be OK here. I'll tag one of our members @emeraldking who frankly I consider an authority when it comes to livebearers, he can provide his insight.

Short finned guppies would be okay in this situation. If you'll use big finned guppies, those fins will tear at some point in softer water.

 

[strangeworld2002]

United Utilities does give your KH - they call it alkalinity

I assume you've found the page which gives the hardness in words and deg Clarke and the supply zone in a grey box?
Below that are tables headed summary and full, summary is loaded as default. Switch to full and the third item down is "alkalinity as CaCO3" - that's KH. Tell us what the number is in the average column, please.

It is 57.6

 

[strangeworld2002]

Short finned guppies would be okay in this situation. If you'll use big finned guppies, those fins will tear at some point in softer water.

They are short fin.

 

[Essjay]

It is 57.6

That converts to 3.2 dH for those who prefer that unit.

That is quite low. It is possible that is can be used up and allow the pH to fall. My KH is similar and quite a few years ago I was very lazy about water changes and overstocked and I did have a pH crash. Someone on another forum told me I needed to add remineralisation salts. Instead I started doing regular weekly large water changes and haven't had a problem since then.

 

[Byron]

The KH is low as I previously suspected, so no problem here. You have soft water with an acidic pH, and make sure the fish you get are suited to such water.