Fish Continue To Die

[Arkportguy87]

well it says it does right on the bottle so idk.... and the ap ich and protozoan parasite treatment ive been using has both  formalin and malachite green those are the only two active ingredients in it, and its still not making a difference... and i already have the temp in the tank at 80 degrees isnt that high enough or should it be higher?

 

[This Old Spouse]

80 degrees is fine. 
 
I'm not sure why the meds aren't working. 
 
Eagles, or anyone else, would adding aquarium salt help?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

well it says it does right on the bottle so idk.... and the ap ich and protozoan parasite treatment ive been using has both  formalin and malachite green those are the only two active ingredients in it, and its still not making a difference... and i already have the temp in the tank at 80 degrees isnt that high enough or should it be higher?

 
 
Ich can be EXTREMELY pervasive.  Many folks have to do two, sometimes even three full courses of treatment before its completely gone.  Its unfortunate, and frustrating even to experienced fishkeepers.  It is, however, part of the hobby and we have to deal with it.
 
 
I know its frustrating, and I know what the bottle claims.  I didn't say it didn't work, I said, "I've never seen a documented case of it doing what it claims".  Its not going to hurt anything, but let me put it to you this way, if you've been adding it for four weeks with every water change, and your tank still isn't cycled, what does that tell you?
 
 
I've seen cases documented where some of the bottled products can speed up the cycling time, but Stress Zyme isn't one of them. 
 
 
As for adding salt, that depends on the species of fish in the tank.  What fish are in the tank? (Some fish are sensitive to salt, which is why I ask).  As I mentioned before, some folks have been able to treat ich with salt and warmer temps ONLY.  Which is nice, as its less expensive (buying a big carton of aquarium salt is very inexpensive and never expires). 
 
Again, depending on what species, you might even want to bump the temp closer to 82-84F.

 

[Arkportguy87]

i have 4 fancy guppies and 1 baby parrot fish about an inch in size and 1 4 inch pleco

 

[Arkportguy87]

well i have 4 Fancy Guppies 1 Baby parrot fish about 1 inch in size and 1 4 inch pleco 


alright my fish are still dying i have added ph equalizer, stress zyme +, Tetra fungus guard, tetra parasite guard, ap ick guard. Ive changed the water multiple times since i first noticed the infection a week or so ago. What else is there that i can do i had my water tested and the ph still read like 7.6 after i had dosed it with the equalizer and done a water change previous to that, im stumped and need help asap before all of the fish are gone, just seems like im running out of options....

 

[eaglesaquarium]

You are adding WAY too much stuff to the water.
 
 
pH equalizer - completely unnecessary and swings the pH as it brings it to 7.0, then it will move towards the normal level then back to 7.0 and the yo-yo continues.  What's the pH from the tap after sitting 24 hours?
 
 
stress zyme+ - an necessary additive that really isn't helping your fish.
 
fungus guard - do you have a fish with a fungus issue?
 
parasite guard - Other than the ich, are you dealing with another parasite issue?
 
ick guard - You have ich.  That needs to be dealt with.
 
 
 
Based on the fish you have (pleco) you can't add salt to the tank to deal with the ich. 
 
 
A stable pH of 7.6 is just fine for these fish.  So, don't fiddle with that.  Get your own test kit so that you don't need to rely on the LFS for that.
 
 
Your options are actually fairly simple.  1 - deal with the ich issue, and ONLY the ich issue.  Other than that, you need to keep the water as clean as possible and the other issues will take care of themselves.  People like to medicate because it seems like the best course of action for the fish, but many times, just keeping the water clean is all they need.  They can handle many parasites, fungi, etc. if they are kept in clean water.
 
 
You have an ammonia problem still, so water changes will need to happen, WHILE medicating the fish.  Here's what I suggest:
 
Do another 90% water change.  Yup.  Water changes will be a regular part of your life, and the more water you remove the better for three reasons:

1. You will get rid of the extraneous chemicals in the water - far too many things going on there, if you ask me. 
2. Vacuum the substrate as you are doing the water change.  This will remove some of the trophants (cyst-like thing I was mentioning earlier) from the substrate so that they can't multiply into more parasites - the more you remove the less there will be to kill with the medicine and the more effective the meds will be on the few that remain. 
3. Remove as much of the ammonia and nitrite that you are dealing with from the water - and will help the fish's nature ability to fight against the issues themselves.

Increase the temp of the tank to 82F - do this via the water change... Add the new water at 82F, and this will speed up the life cycle of the ich parasite, and shorten the treatment time.  Also, increasing the temp will help the bacteria develop - the grow better at higher temps.  So, this will actually help with TWO problems.
 
Increase surface agitation to increase oxygen levels in the water - again, this will kill two birds with one stone.  Higher temps and meds in the water reduces the amount of oxygen in the water.  But increasing surface agitation will increase the oxygen diffusion rate into the water and help the fish breathe easier.
 
Daily water changes of 90%, with increased attention to gravel vacs. - This is CONTRARY to the directions on the ich meds, which say to leave it be for a while.  Given the ammonia issue, you can't take that chance.  Here's how to do it properly.  When you remove 90% of the water, you will be removing 90% of the medicine as well, so redose the meds at 90% of the recommended value after the water change - and make sure the water is 82F.  The cleaner warmer water will help the fish also deal with any secondary infections that may be happening.
 
 
Get a liquid test kit - you need to know if the ammonia is being dealt with properly.  This is independent of the ich issue.
 
 
Continue the ich treatment for 4-5 days AFTER the last sign of ich is gone.  Remember, just because the ich isn't visible on the fish, doesn't mean that it isn't still present in the tank as a trophont (cyst thing on the substrate) or tomite (free swimming vulnerable stage that can be killed by meds as it searches for a new host).
 
 
 
I understand the frustration with this entire process, and with the advice I'm giving, I can't guarantee that no more fish will die.  But, it is the best course of action to save as many of them as possible.  You are fighting an uphill battle, but you CAN win it.  It will take some time and a fair amount of work.  The good news is that if you do this, you don't need to worry about this again - because you'll know what to do.

 

[Arkportguy87]

i was reading on a site about how to lower my ph and it said that having crushed white coral and sea shells in with the sand will raise the ph levels up is that true? should i remove all of that? Is the sand ok to have in there by its self?


also how long should it take my 55 gallon tank to complete its cycle fully? And are there any signs that i should look for that it is not doing it properly? How do you know when it is complete what do i look for?


should i add a small piece of drift wood to the tank to help regulate the ph levels?


so i should no longer add that ph regulator to the tank? And you said i should continue to use the stress zyme right? Is that the only thing i need to add to the new water before i add it to the tank? Should I let the water sit for a specific amount of time before i add it to the tank?

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Are you using a dechlorinator?  You need to add that (and nothing else) to the tap water before adding it to the tank.  The stress zyme doesn't have the "right" bacteria I believe to actually colonize the filter.  So, you can use it, but I don't think it will actually have any real benefit long term.
 
I would stop adding the ph regulator.  Unnecessary - ever.  The tap water's pH should be static enough that it won't be a problem for your fish.  Let the water sit for 24 hours, just to test the pH.  No need to wait before adding to the tank - just dechlorinate it.
 
 
 
You have sea shells or crushed coral in the tank?  I'd remove that.  I also wouldn't worry about adding any wood to the tank at all right now.  Honestly, the affect would be fairly minor.  Try not to complicate things right now.  You want static conditions - remove the stuff that can affect pH and just keep the water changes up and everything will stabilize... it will just take a bit of time.
 
 
Honestly, patience is going to be the thing that you need to focus on right now. 

 

[Arkportguy87]

alright I am going to remove all of that stuff and do the regular water changes and only add the de chlorinator  to the new water and see where it goes from there hopefully everything will balance itself out. thank you for all of your help i really appreciate it 

 

[Teacup]

Essentially, having a stable level of PH is more important than the actual level of PH (i.e. consistent fluctuations can be stressful to the fish, even if it is slightly higher than you would like, it is better to keep it the same, as opposed to messing with it so that it moves up and down constantly). The driftwood is "said" to reduce PH, but I have never seen this happen - however, after soaking the driftwood overnight or so, and then adding it to the tank, it often gives of a tea color that seems to be very relaxing for the fish!

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Teacup is referred to "tannins" as the compound responsible for the tea color.  The tannins take the form of "tannic acid" so it does lower pH, but not appreciably, and only if the buffering ability (kH) of the water has been exceeded, which doesn't happen that much, especially given the size of wood, compared to the total volume of the water in the tank.
 
No problem Arkport - that's why we are here!