Fish concentration camp

[Spyro]

-Bought Fluval curve 60l (+ heater and air-stone) few weeks ago for my little niece and nephew; to keep at my place because parents ehh.

- Did fishless cycle in 7 days with live bacteria product and no ammonia. I thought it's as simple as filling the tank with water, turning on filters and stuff and chucking the fish in. Apparently fish tank needs to be run for 5 days with nitrifying bacteria from bottle (or 7 to be on the safe side). Thanks to my local chain Pet store fish expert member, i did proper Nitrogen cycle for 7 days; Just to be on the safe side. ?

- After 7 long: days took my niece and nephew and we bought bunch of fish and let them into aquarium. Some died soon after and all of them were dead within a week.
Naturally I went back to shop to seek advice on what I have done wrong; Another fish expert salesperson from different chain Pet store (with years of experience setting up tanks), was kind enough to offer advice: she explained to me that I was probably overfeeding fish and I should do 10min aclimatisation in the bag instead of 5 (5 might not be enough for my tank); vacuum gravel, do 80% water change, run tank for 24hr then check Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, PH levels - add fish.

- Bought API test kit, changed water, waited 24 hrs - tested water (0 Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate, PH 7.4ish) - added fish - fish started dying
Decided to do some research on internet, YouTube (that's how I got to this site, Hello everyone).

It soon became apparent that nobody ever cycled tank in 7 days and especially without Ammonia in it; And that pet store chain people I spoke to are not experts, but in-fact have very limited understanding of cycling or fish keeping in general. So I spent many hrs watching YouTube videos, reading sites, etc. In the process learning many things and learning that there is tonne of different opinions, contradicting views, stuff that makes little logic;
Like manufacturer advice of changing filter every fortnight. If it takes so long to do Nitrifying cycle isn't changing the filter going to put me back to start of cycle? And if not than wouldn't that mean that bacteria don't only colonize filter but all surfaces? Thus making filter change futile process as there is enough bacteria elsewhere and colonizing filter takes longer than recommended change? If bacteria lives in filter substrate and not water, then why do I need to add new bacteria when changing water and cycling is complete?
So many things to learn and separate wheat from chaff; Who knew back in the store getting that aquarium

-Anyway now I've been running not cycled tank with remaining fish from 2nd stocking:
1 Siamese fighter
1 Molly
4 Platties
And live plants
3 Anubias
1 Java Fern
1 Hair grass (in pot with food, soil so it doesn't die or spread. Hopefully)

Been doing regular water changes and finally started to see some stabilization of ammonia, nitrites rising. But now I'm back to spiking ammonia and no nitrites or nitrates showing on tests.
My best guess is:
A - forgot to add water conditioner for water change
B - these 5 small-ish plants are using up all the Nitrates that can be built up in 48 hrs between water change.
I have little conviction it's B and lean towards A (stupid me if so)
The whole thing has proven a lot more interesting, engaging and eventful than I anticipated.
Niece and nephew only show occasional passing interest (that bit went as expected) but I'm hooked now
Anyway, that's me. Feel free to give any advice or boo and throw rotten food at me. Hi all ?

 

[Lajos_Detari]

I will touch on a few things as there are too many things to share.

Firstly, you need ammonia source for cycling else your beneficial bacteria(BB) will be starved and they won't grow.
Only use the live bacteria when your tank is new (1-2 months). After 2 months, it will have enough bacteria in the filter and you dont need it anymore.
If you have substrate, the BB will also grown it.

Secondly, start slowly. Add only a few fish on the first week. Wait a few weeks before adding again.

A 60liter tank is small and the ammonia will increase fast.
You can only keep some small fish like Ember Tetras, Chili Rasboras, Galaxy Rasboras, shrimps, etc.
Molly will grow too big for your tank.
Platies also probably not suitable for your tank size.
Watch out your Betta (fighter fish). It will kill your smaller fish especially in small tank(any tank that is less than 120liters, unless the tank is long enough).

For your tank size, I recommend getting Chili Rasboras(at least 10), Pygmy Corydoras(at least 6) and some shrimps(20-30).
But for a start, probably get the Chili Rasboras only.
To keep shrimps, its better to wait 2-3 months when you have enough algae in your tank and the table filter is stable with enough BB.
You dont need to change your filter media unless they are falling apart.
Dont use the filter cartridge that has carbon as you dont need it.
Buy a sponge pad and cut it to fit into your filter container as your filter media.

At the moment, you have to make large water change to reduce the ammonia to zero.
You can buy some quick growing plants like Anacharis Elodea, Cabomba, Hornworts to help absorb the ammonia.

Lastly, how many fish did you buy?

 

[Spyro]

I will touch on a few things as there are too many things to share.

Firstly, you need ammonia source for cycling else your beneficial bacteria(BB) will be starved and they won't grow.
Only use the live bacteria when your tank is new (1-2 months). After 2 months, it will have enough bacteria in the filter and you dont need it anymore.
If you have substrate, the BB will also grown it.

Secondly, start slowly. Add only a few fish on the first week. Wait a few weeks before adding again.

A 60liter tank is small and the ammonia will increase fast.
You can only keep some small fish like Ember Tetras, Chili Rasboras, Galaxy Rasboras, shrimps, etc.
Molly will grow too big for your tank.
Platies also probably not suitable for your tank size.
Watch out your Betta (fighter fish). It will kill your smaller fish especially in small tank(any tank that is less than 120liters, unless the tank is long enough).

For your tank size, I recommend getting Chili Rasboras(at least 10), Pygmy Corydoras(at least 6) and some shrimps(20-30).
But for a start, probably get the Chili Rasboras only.
To keep shrimps, its better to wait 2-3 months when you have enough algae in your tank and the table filter is stable with enough BB.
You dont need to change your filter media unless they are falling apart.
Dont use the filter cartridge that has carbon as you dont need it.
Buy a sponge pad and cut it to fit into your filter container as your filter media.

At the moment, you have to make large water change to reduce the ammonia to zero.
You can buy some quick growing plants like Anacharis Elodea, Cabomba, Hornworts to help absorb the ammonia.

Lastly, how many fish did you buy?

Thanks.

I got 12 fish each time

 

[Lajos_Detari]

Thanks.

I got 12 fish each time

12 fish is too many especially for your tank size and if you keep Mollies and Platies.

Mollies will need a 3 ft (length) tank.

Poecilia sphenops – Short-finned Molly/Black Molly — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Platies might be ok but start with probably 5-6.

Xiphophorus maculatus – Platy — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Feed once every 2-3 days since your filter is not ready yet.

I forgot to ask you.
What is your water hardness (GH)?
Platies require GH of above 180ppm.
And they are live bearers.
You will have many fry in the future.
Be prepare for this.
I usually don't keep fish for breeding as I will have to keep adding new tanks.

All the best.

 

[Colin_T]

WHAT TO DO NOW.
Reduce your feeding to a couple of times a week until the filters have developed the beneficial bacteria that keeps ammonia and nitrite at 0ppm. It usually takes about 4-6 weeks for a filter to cycle. After that you can increase feeding to once or twice a day.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate any day you have an ammonia or nitrite reading above 0ppm, or a nitrate reading above 20ppm.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Get some live floating plants like Water Sprite (Ceratoptiers thalictroides/ cornuta) into the tank and they will help to keep the nutrients down. You can grow Water Sprite on the surface or plant it in the gravel.

Make sure live plants get 10-16 hours light per day, but they need at least 8 hours of darkness.

--------------------
MORE IN DEPTH EXPLANATION OF THE INFO ABOVE.
Anything that breaks down in the water, be it fish food, fish waste, dead plant, dead fish, etc, produce ammonia. In a healthy tank with an established filter, the ammonia is eaten by beneficial bacteria and converted into nitrite. You get more good bacteria that eat nitrite and convert it into nitrate. You get rid of nitrates by doing water changes.

In a new tank the bacteria is not normally present and you get a build up of ammonia that harms and can kill the fish. A few weeks after the tank has been set up, you get the first colonies of good bacteria that eat the ammonia. A couple of weeks after that you start to get the other good bacteria that eat the nitrite. It normally takes about 4-6 weeks for an aquarium to develop the colonies of good bacteria that keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at 0.

When the ammonia and nitrite levels have gone up and come back down to 0, and the nitrate levels start to go up, the tank will be considered cycled (developed the necessary good filter bacteria) and you can feed the fish once or twice a day and do a 75% water change once a week. Until then you keep feeding down and water changes up. By reducing the food going into the tank, you help to keep the ammonia levels lower. By doing big water changes, you help to dilute any ammonia in the water.

In a newly set up aquarium, you should feed the fish to 2-3 times per week. Don't worry, the fish won't starve. You should also do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate 4-8 hours after feeding. And you should monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels and do a 75% water change any day you have an ammonia or nitrite reading above 0, or a nitrate reading above 20ppm.

*NB* Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

The big water changes will not harm the filter bacteria or fish as long as any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

-------------------------
During the first month of a tank's cycle, you monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels. You normally get ammonia readings for the first few weeks. The ammonia goes up and as the beneficial filter bacteria build up in numbers they gradually convert the ammonia into nitrite. After a few weeks the ammonia level will suddenly drop to 0 and the nitrite will start to go up. A couple of weeks later the nitrite levels drop to 0 and the nitrates start to go up. You get rid of nitrates by doing water changes.

During the cycling period you do not test for nitrates until the ammonia and nitrite have gone up and come back down to 0. Nitrate test kits will read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading. So you monitor ammonia during the first few weeks and then start monitoring nitrite as well. Once they have both gone up and come down to 0, you start monitoring nitrate.

-------------------------
Do not clean the new filter for the first 6-8 weeks. This allows the filter bacteria a chance to settle in properly and stick to the filter media. Two weeks after the filters have finished cycling, you can start to clean the filter.

Established filters should be cleaned at least once a month and every 2 weeks is better.

To clean a power filter or internal sponge/ box filter. You get a bucket of water from the aquarium and squeeze the filter materials out in the bucket of tank water. When they are clean you put them in the aquarium. Wash/ rinse the filter case and impellor assembly (for a power filter) under tap water. Remove any excess tap water by tipping the filter case upside down, then put the filter materials back into the filter and set it back up and get it going.

If you have an undergravel filter, that will be cleaned when you do water changes and gravel clean the substrate. You can buy a basic model gravel cleaner from any pet shop and they are worth getting. You only need a basic model gravel cleaner like the one in the following link. Do not buy the expensive fancy types because they are no better than a base model gravel cleaner.

Aquarium Cleaning Made Easy

Aquarium cleaning should take 30 minutes every two weeks. Learn how the professionals do it in 18 easy steps.

www.about-goldfish.com

-------------------------
If you have a filter that containers pads/ cartridges that need replacing on a regular basis, do not replace them. Go to the pet shop and buy some sponge for a different brand of filter (I use AquaClear sponges but there are other brands), and use a pair of scissors to cut the sponge to fit in your filter. Keep the sponge and filter pads together for 2 months, then remove the pads and throw them away. Replace the pads with more sponge.

Sponges get squeezed out in a bucket of tank water and will last 10+ years.

You can also get round/ cylindrical sponges for some brands of internal power filter. These round sponges have a hole through the centre and they fit over the intake strainer of most external power filters. They add extra filtration and prevent small fish and bits of plant from being sucked into the filter.

 

[Spyro]

12 fish is too many especially for your tank size and if you keep Mollies and Platies.

Mollies will need a 3 ft (length) tank.

Poecilia sphenops – Short-finned Molly/Black Molly — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Platies might be ok but start with probably 5-6.

Xiphophorus maculatus – Platy — Seriously Fish

www.seriouslyfish.com

Feed once every 2-3 days since your filter is not ready yet.

I forgot to ask you.
What is your water hardness (GH)?
Platies require GH of above 180ppm.
And they are live bearers.
You will have many fry in the future.
Be prepare for this.
I usually don't keep fish for breeding as I will have to keep adding new tanks.

All the best.

Yeah, I have realized that after doing research.
Fish guy in pet store said I can have 20 fish in the tank: Mollies, Platies, Angel fish and Betta. Then another 5-10 coridoras as they stay on the bottom
After research, I realized Molly and Platy grow about 5-7cm, which is quite large for the tank. Betta with them is 50/50% chance of working out and Betta and Angel definitely not. Not to mention that Angel grows huge for the tank size.
I'm probably gonna upgrade to 120l tank since larger tank isn't harder to establish as I originally thought. Then restock with proper research. And keep this tank running with Betta and couple of other fish in another room.
I don't know what my GH is. Didn't bother to check since I've got new tank syndrome and doubtful all that fish will survive in such a small un-established tank.

 

[Spyro]

WHAT TO DO NOW.
Reduce your feeding to a couple of times a week until the filters have developed the beneficial bacteria that keeps ammonia and nitrite at 0ppm. It usually takes about 4-6 weeks for a filter to cycle. After that you can increase feeding to once or twice a day.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate any day you have an ammonia or nitrite reading above 0ppm, or a nitrate reading above 20ppm.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Get some live floating plants like Water Sprite (Ceratoptiers thalictroides/ cornuta) into the tank and they will help to keep the nutrients down. You can grow Water Sprite on the surface or plant it in the gravel.

Make sure live plants get 10-16 hours light per day, but they need at least 8 hours of darkness.

--------------------
MORE IN DEPTH EXPLANATION OF THE INFO ABOVE.
Anything that breaks down in the water, be it fish food, fish waste, dead plant, dead fish, etc, produce ammonia. In a healthy tank with an established filter, the ammonia is eaten by beneficial bacteria and converted into nitrite. You get more good bacteria that eat nitrite and convert it into nitrate. You get rid of nitrates by doing water changes.

In a new tank the bacteria is not normally present and you get a build up of ammonia that harms and can kill the fish. A few weeks after the tank has been set up, you get the first colonies of good bacteria that eat the ammonia. A couple of weeks after that you start to get the other good bacteria that eat the nitrite. It normally takes about 4-6 weeks for an aquarium to develop the colonies of good bacteria that keep the ammonia and nitrite levels at 0.

When the ammonia and nitrite levels have gone up and come back down to 0, and the nitrate levels start to go up, the tank will be considered cycled (developed the necessary good filter bacteria) and you can feed the fish once or twice a day and do a 75% water change once a week. Until then you keep feeding down and water changes up. By reducing the food going into the tank, you help to keep the ammonia levels lower. By doing big water changes, you help to dilute any ammonia in the water.

In a newly set up aquarium, you should feed the fish to 2-3 times per week. Don't worry, the fish won't starve. You should also do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate 4-8 hours after feeding. And you should monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels and do a 75% water change any day you have an ammonia or nitrite reading above 0, or a nitrate reading above 20ppm.

*NB* Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

The big water changes will not harm the filter bacteria or fish as long as any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

-------------------------
During the first month of a tank's cycle, you monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels. You normally get ammonia readings for the first few weeks. The ammonia goes up and as the beneficial filter bacteria build up in numbers they gradually convert the ammonia into nitrite. After a few weeks the ammonia level will suddenly drop to 0 and the nitrite will start to go up. A couple of weeks later the nitrite levels drop to 0 and the nitrates start to go up. You get rid of nitrates by doing water changes.

During the cycling period you do not test for nitrates until the ammonia and nitrite have gone up and come back down to 0. Nitrate test kits will read nitrite as nitrate and give you a false reading. So you monitor ammonia during the first few weeks and then start monitoring nitrite as well. Once they have both gone up and come down to 0, you start monitoring nitrate.

-------------------------
Do not clean the new filter for the first 6-8 weeks. This allows the filter bacteria a chance to settle in properly and stick to the filter media. Two weeks after the filters have finished cycling, you can start to clean the filter.

Established filters should be cleaned at least once a month and every 2 weeks is better.

To clean a power filter or internal sponge/ box filter. You get a bucket of water from the aquarium and squeeze the filter materials out in the bucket of tank water. When they are clean you put them in the aquarium. Wash/ rinse the filter case and impellor assembly (for a power filter) under tap water. Remove any excess tap water by tipping the filter case upside down, then put the filter materials back into the filter and set it back up and get it going.

If you have an undergravel filter, that will be cleaned when you do water changes and gravel clean the substrate. You can buy a basic model gravel cleaner from any pet shop and they are worth getting. You only need a basic model gravel cleaner like the one in the following link. Do not buy the expensive fancy types because they are no better than a base model gravel cleaner.

Aquarium Cleaning Made Easy

Aquarium cleaning should take 30 minutes every two weeks. Learn how the professionals do it in 18 easy steps.

www.about-goldfish.com

-------------------------
If you have a filter that containers pads/ cartridges that need replacing on a regular basis, do not replace them. Go to the pet shop and buy some sponge for a different brand of filter (I use AquaClear sponges but there are other brands), and use a pair of scissors to cut the sponge to fit in your filter. Keep the sponge and filter pads together for 2 months, then remove the pads and throw them away. Replace the pads with more sponge.

Sponges get squeezed out in a bucket of tank water and will last 10+ years.

You can also get round/ cylindrical sponges for some brands of internal power filter. These round sponges have a hole through the centre and they fit over the intake strainer of most external power filters. They add extra filtration and prevent small fish and bits of plant from being sucked into the filter.

Thanks.
Yeah, I got gravel vacuum.
And my filter is internal cartridge filter, that comes with the set.
Everything I was told turns out as not being true.

I wish I did proper research, before starting instead of believing store people.

Thank you for helping out