Dropsy or not?

[Divinityinlove]

Hi, video link here:

This guy starting gasping and swollen belly recently and the only change was trying to feed Cobalt flakes a bit more and frozen foods a bit less. I have no idea what the issue is but he's the only one who became swollen like this. I also noticed him staying towards the top a lot so, I now have him in a quarantine tank for the last 3 days with oxygen, plants and almond leaves. I did a 30 min salt bath on 1st day and the 3rd (today) for 30 mins. Half teaspoon API aqua salt to 1 gallon water. I see no improvement and am considering medicating with King British disease clear which is Silver proreinate, as Kanaplex is extremely expensive to get in UK on eBay and this was recommended on amazon reviews instead and with good feedback for it. Aside from this, some people recommended Melafix soaked food which I have but am unsure about because it just seems so strong and it used to totally freak out the kuhli loaches I had.

Also not sure if the oxygen pump is too loud and stressful? But I didn't want to put the sponge filter on it because I want thr almond leaf tannins to stay in the water. I change the water 50% daily instead of a filter.

Today this guppy didn't even eat. I was feeding brine shrimp (frozen, comes with garlic, spirulina enhancement). Maybe he was nervous because I moved him from the salt water to his tank again and I should've waited. When he was in the salt bath he was swimming freely and loving it... I'll try to feed him later again.

Question is, is it dropsy or something else?

 

[GaryE]

Sadly, it is dropsy, which is a symptom, not a disease. How he fares will depend on the cause. Usually, it's an internal infection, and the fish is doomed. Occasionally, it is a blockage that clears, or something the fish can fight off. But the raised scales in your closeup speak to early kidney failure.

The kidneys maintain the balance between water in and water out - try putting him back in denser salted water. A dip treats skin parasites, and this is not that. He does swim like a hardwater fish is softwater. Remove the almond leaves. Guppies do not like tannins. They evolved over limestone with hard water, and you are creating a habitat for a softwater fish by adding tannins. The noise from the filter won't bother a species that evolved with water rolling over rocks.

Simplify. Run a sponge filter. Do your water changes. Respect the natural history of the fish. You have an internal problem and are using external meds - melafix and disease clear are not the ticket. Kanaplex would be for a vet to decide.

Start by moving the guppy to a hospital tank with harder water, and find out what your water is like. There should be a municipal water plant that will tell you. It could just be a random organ failure - it happens in all creatures. But you need to find out that your tap is like in case you are trying to keep guppies in water just a bit too soft.

Plus, how long have you had this fish?

 

[Divinityinlove]

Sadly, it is dropsy, which is a symptom, not a disease. How he fares will depend on the cause. Usually, it's an internal infection, and the fish is doomed. Occasionally, it is a blockage that clears, or something the fish can fight off. But the raised scales in your closeup speak to early kidney failure.

The kidneys maintain the balance between water in and water out - try putting him back in denser salted water. A dip treats skin parasites, and this is not that. He does swim like a hardwater fish is softwater. Remove the almond leaves. Guppies do not like tannins. They evolved over limestone with hard water, and you are creating a habitat for a softwater fish by adding tannins. The noise from the filter won't bother a species that evolved with water rolling over rocks.

Simplify. Run a sponge filter. Do your water changes. Respect the natural history of the fish. You have an internal problem and are using external meds - melafix and disease clear are not the ticket. Kanaplex would be for a vet to decide.

Start by moving the guppy to a hospital tank with harder water, and find out what your water is like. There should be a municipal water plant that will tell you. It could just be a random organ failure - it happens in all creatures. But you need to find out that your tap is like in case you are trying to keep guppies in water just a bit too soft.

Plus, how long have you had this fish?

I'll remove the almond leaves. I read in many places that they're good for guppies. My water is very hard here in London. I'll see how he does without the tannins and fresh water.

He was born in my main tank and is about 6 months old or so.

Please can you elaborate how you identify the raised scales?? I can never see.

 

[GaryE]

I'm an old guy whose eyes have seen a lot, and act like it!

But in the close up at the end of the video, there are spiky bits along the tip of the scales, along his belly. Usually, since dropsy is often a symptom of extreme old age in fish, I like to check from above with older fish. You see it along the flanks.

The fish is retaining water so the scales are being pushed from within.

London should be chalk water, and I have noticed it's hard when I've been there. So that's no issue.

My suggestion is to ignore the well meaning online advice, including mine, and see where guppies come from. You may not be able to physically go there, but the info is available. We may have completely deformed guppies in the time we've bred them, for better or worse, but there is a very long natural history we haven't changed. I had guppies from a Trini colleague who caught them in her backyard brook, and I had a good description from her - moving water, shallow in places, clear with leaf litter, and over the white powdery ex-coral and limestone ground that is a lot of the Caribbean region.

I was always struck by the clear water when I fished for mollies in Honduras, Mexico, the US and Guatemala. In Mexico, I could see the scarlet fins of the Poecilia mexicana 30 feet down in the water, clear as could be. In Belize, platys and mollies were in a greenwater river, but the limestone was in all of those places. Hard hard water, but no traces of tannins I could see.

 

[Divinityinlove]

I'm an old guy whose eyes have seen a lot, and act like it!

But in the close up at the end of the video, there are spiky bits along the tip of the scales, along his belly. Usually, since dropsy is often a symptom of extreme old age in fish, I like to check from above with older fish. You see it along the flanks.

The fish is retaining water so the scales are being pushed from within.

London should be chalk water, and I have noticed it's hard when I've been there. So that's no issue.

My suggestion is to ignore the well meaning online advice, including mine, and see where guppies come from. You may not be able to physically go there, but the info is available. We may have completely deformed guppies in the time we've bred them, for better or worse, but there is a very long natural history we haven't changed. I had guppies from a Trini colleague who caught them in her backyard brook, and I had a good description from her - moving water, shallow in places, clear with leaf litter, and over the white powdery ex-coral and limestone ground that is a lot of the Caribbean region.

I was always struck by the clear water when I fished for mollies in Honduras, Mexico, the US and Guatemala. In Mexico, I could see the scarlet fins of the Poecilia mexicana 30 feet down in the water, clear as could be. In Belize, platys and mollies were in a greenwater river, but the limestone was in all of those places. Hard hard water, but no traces of tannins I could see.

Fascinating. Thanks. How does one transport fish back home when collecting them from the tropical areas? I mean, were they flown by plane or some other way? Maybe one day I will travel and like to find fish...

 

[Divinityinlove]

But essentially, is there anything I can do for him now? I have put in fresh water, and a sponge filter on the oxygen pump. I can see the raised scales along his belly now, poor thing. But not sure what else can be done. Also, what should I feed him if anything now? He didn't notice the brine shrimp but maybe he was nervous as I added so many tannins in and will feel better again soon. He started swimming around as soon as I put in fresh water.

 

[GaryE]

I have seen a lot of dropsy. Sometimes, there are random recoveries. More often not. But I stress the word random. There can be so many causes that treatments (even if we had good ones) are luck.
My great grandmother once said "No one dies of dropsy anymore. After the 1919 influenza, everyone did." Now we can save many people. Fish though?

I would stop feeding for a couple of days, and watch him. Fat accumulates in the body cavity of a fish, not under the skin as with us. So overfeeding is a risk factor. There was an old guy in our club who unscientifically blamed it for all dropsy. He was wrong, but easing up on the intake can't hurt. If fat accumulates around the organs and one organ is compromised somehow, why not try it? I usually cut back on feeding fish I'm treating. 2 weeks unfed won't hurt them.

It probably isn't your fault, by the way. Pulling the leaves is a good idea, but not life or death. It's one of those "&*&^ happens" things when it's just one fish.

 

[Divinityinlove]

I have seen a lot of dropsy. Sometimes, there are random recoveries. More often not. But I stress the word random. There can be so many causes that treatments (even if we had good ones) are luck.
My great grandmother once said "No one dies of dropsy anymore. After the 1919 influenza, everyone did." Now we can save many people. Fish though?

I would stop feeding for a couple of days, and watch him. Fat accumulates in the body cavity of a fish, not under the skin as with us. So overfeeding is a risk factor. There was an old guy in our club who unscientifically blamed it for all dropsy. He was wrong, but easing up on the intake can't hurt. If fat accumulates around the organs and one organ is compromised somehow, why not try it? I usually cut back on feeding fish I'm treating. 2 weeks unfed won't hurt them.

It probably isn't your fault, by the way. Pulling the leaves is a good idea, but not life or death. It's one of those "&*&^ happens" things when it's just one fish.

Thanks Gary, I shall keep an eye, thanks for your words

 

[Nuttawet]

It's dropsy maybe because the water is bad.

 

[Yellow]

I believe Gary E.is correct, reading his intake.
Cut off the food for sure for 2-5 days.
Sure hoe your guppy recovers, Divinityinlove!

 

[Divinityinlove]

I believe Gary E.is correct, reading his intake.
Cut off the food for sure for 2-5 days.
Sure hoe your guppy recovers, Divinityinlove!

I quarantined him, first without meds, then after a week with meds, but he didn't improve and I lost him two days ago.