Do pet stores carry such bad stock that you should quarantine?

[SomethingsFishy24]

So you would quarantine a cat being brought in from another state? Where would you do that? You suggest you would quarantine a cow or sheep as well, where would you do that?

I quarantined my new kitties in a separate room on another level of the house in a room closed off from the others. Made sure hands were washed and I changed my clothes after interacting with the new kitty. After threat of disease was passed we began " scent exchange" and gradual introduction to the other cats, that's why they get on well and do not fight. Most my cats were strays at the time they came to me, so no telling what they might have picked up until I had them completely vetted and vaccinated.

Similar situation to a cow or horse or sheep, separation from the herd. Screening for blood Bourne disease prior to cow even coming to farm. They usually have a stall that can be sanitized, hard or rubber flooring with drainage.

Hawaii has a strict 6 month quarantine on all cats and dogs entering the state as Hawaii does not have rabies, even for vaccinated animals, they must quarantine.

Quarantine is not a forgein concept in animal husbandry, but just like with fish keeping, people will forego it. It can have costly consequences, especially if animals are kept in high populations. Feline leukemia/panleukopenia outbreaks in cats can mean death of the whole population housed together.

 

[Colin_T]

So you would quarantine a cat being brought in from another state? Where would you do that? You suggest you would quarantine a cow or sheep as well, where would you do that?

We quarantine animals coming from other states. And things like sheep, cows, pigs, etc, are all quarantined when they get to a new farm. Farmer Joe doesn't want 5000 head of healthy cattle catching something because a new stud bull came onto the property. He is quite happy to keep it isolated for a month until it has been thoroughly vet checked and monitored for diseases. When he is certain it doesn't have any diseases, he introduces it to his mob.

 

[Valkyrie_Lips]

You realize the animal shelters that you're comparing fish stores to quarantine their animals right? So do many farms. It's not a new concept, simply a safety precaution. Fish are fragile and there are diseases that can lie dormant waiting to attack when the fish's immune system is compromised due to stress. They are called opportunistic infections/diseases. An example of this is ick. One way to avoid spreading these opportunistic infections to your main tank is by using a quarantine tank to treat the fish in.

As someone who used to work at a large pet store chain we quarantined all new mammals, but with fish it is much less practical. We carried many species of fish (we had hundreds in the display tanks) and we received dozens of new fish weekly with the only place for them to go being the tanks allocated to their species. The exception is if we noticed a visibly sick fish, then we placed it in a large quarantine tank in the back and attempted to treat it.

 

[outofwater]

The whole thread is an apples to oranges comparison and it boils down to 2 things: the store making money, and the customers own responsibility and decision-making.
To sell fish (which have traveled half the wprld sometimes) for under $5, AND make money, they have to be turned quickly. Couple that with the logistics limitations already mentioned (lack of capable/knowledgeable/interested workers) and lack of physical space to house them all, because you either show them or you don't sell anything... and then the customers side. Some people do their homework and read up on how to keep fish BEFORE they go to the store, but for the majority it's an impulse buy driven by what looks prettiest at the store or what they saw on TV or online, and who often will get "offended" if a knowledgeable employee contradicts them.

On a personal note, once my tank was established and I learned a little more about how the stores operate, I have not quarantined my last 2 purchases. Acclimation, yes, I did so; but went without quarantine, and these were fish from petco (neons) and an lfs (ottos). My 2 cents, fwiw.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Most folks who keep fish know very little about them whether they are wild casught imports or farm raised in Florida etc. I have bought fish which two weeks erarlier were in a river in Brazil or the border river between CColombia and benezuela. I have bought fish wholesale and from breeders.

I quarantine pretty much everything. There are a number of reasons for this. If a fish is being purchased ata store none of them quarantine properly if at all. Understand when live things are involved they can die. They need to be cared for and fed, So Every day a fish remains in a store unsold, it costs the owner more. This means the longer it takes to sell , the less profit it will generate. So stores love rapid turnover. Next, stores pay rent by the square foot. Quarantining requires space and that costs money.

I wonder how many would be willing to pay 50 to 100% more for fish at stores so that the stores coud do proper Q?

Next, wild fish v.s. the fish now in your tanks. The diseases one finds in the wild and in aquariums are not identical. By this I mean some things in the wild are rarely seen in tanks while fish in the wild may have no natural immunity to some of the diseases common in aquariums. Of course there are those that may be found in both. Some things can lurk inside a fish un seen or known until they hget serious enough to becime a problem. This can take weeks or even months. So when a load of fish comes in from the wild, it may be prudent to Q them for a few months. I do this with any wild caught fish I acquire.

For domestically sourced fish my Q is only 30 days rather than the 3 months for wilds. A perfect exa ple would be the red line barbs I have brought in around Late Oct. to take with me to sell the following march at an even I attended for a number of years. But I had the space and the inclination to do this, I am not a store though.

I have a number of fish for 15 to 20 years and I am most certainly not going to lose them because I unknowingly brought home a fish carrying an undetected disease/parasite/worm. One sick fish can wipe out an entire tank. Wild caught fish can also bring in a disease which it and its companions in the wild have an immunity to, but the fish in one's aquarium do not. This is a two way street.

Finally, I have a number of fish that I paid a whole lot for. Thins many $100s. I would have to be a fool to put a new fish into a tank full of very expensive fish.

If your pet dog, cat bird or even harp/ gets sick you can take it to a vet. This is almost impossible with fish. We as keepers are sadlled with responsibility of diagnosing and treating our fish. And most of us are not exactly trained, experienced enough nor do we have the sort of equipment we might need. So for this keeper, nothing comes in that escapes a time in a Q tank. But then I do have the space and tanks to be able to do this. Not everybody who has fish can do this.

What I do know is that folks with multiple tanks and/or with fish they have had for many years are the ones most likley to Q. However, it is also important to understand the risks of deciding not to or being unable to do so if that is one's situation.

edited for spelling, typos and grammar only

 

[outofwater]

Most folks who keep fish know very little about them whether they are wild casught imports or farm raised in Florida etc. I have bought fish which two weeks erarlier were in a river in Brazil or the border river between CColombia and benezuela. I have bought fish wholesale and from breeders.

I quarantine pretty much everything. There are a number of reasons for this. If a fish is being purchased ata store none of them quarantine properly if at all. Understand when live things are involved they can die. They need to be cared for and fed, So Every day a fish remains in a store unsold, it costs the owner more. This means the longer it takes to sell , the less profit it will generate. So stores love rapid turnover. Next, stores pay rent by the square foot. Quarantining requires space and that costs money.

I wonder how many would be willing to pay 50 to 100% more for fish at stores so that the stores coud do proper Q?

Next, wild fish v.s. the fish now in your tanks. The diseases one finds in the wild and in aquariums are not identical. By this I mean some things in the wild are rerarely seen in tanks whild fish in the wild may have no natural immunity to some of the diseases common in aquariums. Of course there are those thise that may be found in both. Some things can lurk inside a fish un seen or known until they hget serious enough to becime a problem. This can take weeks or even months. So when a load of fish comes in from the wild, it may be prudent to Q them for a few months. I do this with any wild caught fish I acquire.

For domestically sourced fish my Q is only 30 days rather than the 3 months for wilds. A perfect exa ple would be the red line barbs I have brought in around Late Oct. to take with me to sell the following march at an even I attended for a number of years. But I had the space and the inclination to do this, I am not a store though.

I have a number of fish for 15 ro 20 years and I am most certainly not going to lose them because I unknowingly brought home a fish carrying an undetected disease/parasite/worm. One sick fish can wipe out an entire tank. Wild caught fish can also bring in a disease which it and its companions in the wild have an immunity to, but the fish in one's aquarium do not. This is a two way street.

Finally, I have a number of fish that I paid a whole lot for. Thins many $100s. I would have to be a fool to put a new fish into a tank full of very expensive fish.

If your pet dog, cat bird or even harp/ gets sick you can take it to a vet. This is almost impossible with fish. We as keepers are sadlled with responsibility of diagnosing and treating our fish. And most of us are not exactly trained, experienced enough nor do we have the sort of equipment we might need. So for this keeper, nothing comes in that excapes a time in a Q tank. But then I do have the space and tanks to be able to do this. Not everybody who has fish can do this.

What I do know is that folks with multiple tanks and.or with fish they have had for many uears are the ones most likley to Q. However, it is also important to understand the risks of deciding not to or being unable to do so if that is one's situation.

If and when I get to that level of knowledge and confidence (to get fish valued at hundreds of dollars, heck, anything over $20 I'd hate to lose both because I don't want to kill fish and because of the lost money) I'd consider more stringent procedures. By that same token, I'd expect better quality fish all around. Not that I don't love my $3 cories, $2.50 neons, $4.50 ottos or $8 gourami. These are first and foremost sentient animals that I choose to care and be responsible for, and I'm at the stage where I feel confident enough to contemplate the possible additions I want for my tank that I can decide whether or not - and for how long - to quarantine newcomers.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I am a split personality when it comes yo fish. I have a number of tanks with the rarely B&W plecos, but i also have planted communities. I have fish that cost from 50 cents to many hundreds. I have some rasboras now in a 25 gal. that have to be at least a dozen years old if not more. I have corys, danios, tetras, white clouds and have kept plenty of the inexpensive fish for years. However, over time I have rotated species.

As for the expensive stuff, that started in 2006 when I broke into an IRA to buy a proven breeding group of zebra plecos. That was the big risk. And when it worked out really well, they paid for most everything including the next group of plecos i bought. Each groups paid for the next, often with the help of the previous groups.

What makes keeping fish such a great hobby is it offers a great diversity of options. But the true joy of the hobby is that we like our tank(s). As long as we smile a lot when working in or staring at any tank, it makes it worthwhile. How many times have we gotten lost staring into a tank without being aware of how much time passed? And how often have we done the happy fish dance because we got a new fish or discovered something had spawned?

That happy fish dance is the same for the beginning keeper with their first small tank to fools like me with too many tanks and stupidly expensive fish to the folks who think I am an amateur based on what they have. It doesn't ,atter where one falls on this spectrum, we all get to do the same happy fish dance.

One last observation from my point of view. I make the same effort and will spend the same amount of money for needed meds to treat a common tetra or a multi $100 pleco etc. Any fish in my tanks is my responsibility. If I am not prepared to make my best effort to care for it properly, I should not have it. This is just how I do things because I can.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Smaller, privately owned (non-chain) fish stores operate on an absolute knife edge when it comes to profit. Store space is expensive, racking, aquariums to hold thousands of fish, paying for hundreds of gallons of water per week, buying and shipping the fish, staff to care for and sell them - it's super expensive to run and maintain a store, and they've mostly been out-competed and shut down since supermarkets began carrying pet food, big chain stores became the norm, and now that most people buy all their pet food and equipment from amazon.

My parents had an aviaries and aquatics business for decades, which they eventually turned into a typical old school pet shop in the 80s. It was normal then for people to go to stores like theirs for their pets, cages, tanks, food, books about them etc. Those are the things that keep the shop going. My parents had to shut down in the end because of supermarkets and chains being able to get better deals for bulk buying and undercutting their prices. Understandable that customers want the cheapest items and ease of shopping, but many, many pet stores and fish stores have closed as a result. We get cheaper mass produced products and cheaply bred/farmed fish, but there's a cost to it to, since you don't have the small local shops with knowledgeable and caring owners, just chains who don't care about the animal welfare or the customer beyond lip service.

They cannot afford to quarantine, house, feed and pay for the water and electricity to quarantine new fish for weeks before they go on sale. They truly can't, and even if they did, there are diseases and parasites like worms that can remain invisible for months and still wind up in your home tank. So it wouldn't solve the problem.
No one is trying to sell you diseased fish (usually). Fish stores order what they want, and hope the supplier is decent. Supplier is trying to breed or warehouse as many fish in as small a space as possible, and being caught/transported/shipped causes a lot of stress. Stress leads to disease. You just have to accept that this is part of the hobby since diseases are easily spread, and take responsibility for your own part. Examine the fish well before buying if you're going in store, quarantine and monitor new additions, and learn as much about the common diseases and symptoms as you can. We're all muddling through as best we can, but they're not trying to be cruel or mistreating the fish usually. The others explained it better, I don't know, this just rubbed me the wrong way. Especially trying to compare it to a shelter or something.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

But shelters don't need to mass breed and they're full of pets 24/7. Fish are one of the most popular pets, surely it could be the same with them.

But there's still fish that are accidentally breed, left when people move away, and that otherwise aren't wanted anymore. They're obviously limited to the tank, but there's still many ways it could happen.

I do know of one fish rescue place, in the US and has a youtube channel - Ohio Fish Rescue. They mainly seem to take the "monster" fish that people can no longer house and care for. Decent channel, worth checking out, and you'd be amazed and how much water they go through daily, and electricity costs when you have hundreds to thousands of gallons worth of water in massive tanks that need heating and huge filtration systems. This hobby ain't cheap, and most people don't care enough about fish to donate to a fish rescue.

You know how shelters tend to be packed with pits and pit mixes? They get the backyard bred dogs that are sold on and eventually dumped at a shelter. Very rarely do they get the more expensive, bred by a dedicated breeder breeds in, and when they do, they're quickly snapped up by breed specific rescues that have waiting lists of people. If you want a rarer or more unusual breed and are on a rescue waiting list, you could be waiting for years.

If there were a fish shelter like you're imagining, it would rapidly be completely overwhelmed with livebearers, goldfish, and the fish that grow to be giant, like red tailed cats and common plecos. Which need huge tanks or even ponds and massively expensive to maintain, almost impossible to rehome.

 

[Alice B]

So you would quarantine a cat being brought in from another state? Where would you do that? You suggest you would quarantine a cow or sheep as well, where would you do that?

In my fish room. Where the latest arrival is quarantined. He's a rescue kitty and not used to such a large household.

And there is a Dallas-Fort Worth fish rescue, running in donated space - I've both received a fish from them (a betta), and donated fish to them - a pair of very large parrotfish I got stuck with. A college student and a couple of retired people started it, but once again they are not in a public space - real estate is pricey. And one of the local fish vendors on Facebook is being tacky so yes there are fish rescues but scarce. I take in unwanted koi and goldfish, and occasionally pick up a bunch of mosquitofish when a pond is about to be filled in, and I don't actually sell any fish, I give them away. Is there a quarantine goldfish tank? Yup, top of my driveway, by the garage door. for anyone that doesn't look good. I healed up a little koi in the garage this spring in a 29 gallon. Epsom salts and spinach