Discouraged And Confused - Can't Keep Fish Alive

[Chester]

Hello, I am new to the forum and new to fish…
I thought that keeping fish was going to be relatively easy, but the fish are becoming the most complicated aspect of the house…
We got a 30 gallon tank and cycled it with three Red Phantom Tetra’s, after almost two months it just wouldn’t cycle (we are totally new to it all) so we gave in and bought some cycling stuff from a pet store and we finally had a fully cycled tank.
We went away at one point for two days and we turned the light off so as not to stress out the fish, someone came in to feed them each day, but we didn’t take into account the temperature drop from having the light off and it got too cold and we lost two fish, we were pretty sad and our one little fish left in the tank seemed pretty lonely and bored (maybe just me giving it emotions haha) Anyway, so we went out and bought four Serpea tetras hoping that they would take in the red phantom, which they did. After a few weeks we went out and got 6 guppies and an algae eater, just a little cat fish looking one.
Not long after we got the guppies, maybe two days, we found one dead at the bottom of the tank... This was our first unexplained death in the tank… So we googled it and found out that Serpea tetra’s are quite aggressive and could be nipping at the guppies and stressing them out, so we kept a good eye on them and they actually do not bother them at all. Since then we have lost about one Guppie a week with no real explanation, they just stick to one spot in the tank and float in solitude and slowly die over the course of a day.
So two days ago I noticed that the Phantom Tetra had bubbles all over him… so I googled it, turns out (or so I assume) he has Ich… of course, why not… Anyway, he was dead by morning, so we treated the tank last night with some Ich medication, lost another Guppie last night…
We have had the tank since like September, it always seems like things are going fine and then BAM dead fish, we check the water often, replace water like once a week…
We are getting ready to give up on keeping a tank, which makes me really sad because they are so beautiful, I spend more time sitting and watching the fish tank then I do watching television, I Want to get a bigger tank with more of them, but I feel like I would just be giving them a death sentence at this point because we can’t seem to keep them alive…

 

[lrhodes]

OK. So... are you sure he had ich? You treated the tank, did you remove the carbon from your filter? (If that's the kind of filter you use).... I just went through an ich outbreak and it took forever to get it completely gone. Almost lost my entire guppy population! (Though it has quickly upped its numbers!) What is your temperature set on? And it would help to know exactly what kind of "algae eater" you have.

 

[fluttermoth]

I'm sorry you're going through such a difficult introduction to the hobby!
 
You urgently need some test kits, if you don't have them already, so you can check your water. Ammonia and nitrite are the vital ones. If you do have tests, can you post the readings?
 
Nearly all fish deaths are water quality related; even ich, which is caused by a parasite, can often only infect fish when they're already weakened; healthy fish can normally fight it off.

 

[Chester]

Hi, thanks for your responses.
 
We have a test kit, it just changes the water colors, it shows that we have
zero Amonia
Zero nitrite
nitrate about 10mg/l
7.5 ph
 
And I am not really sure if we have Ich, it just seems to fit the description of what the fish had the other day. The tetra's look like they have a like sheer coating on them, hard to explain... But the one that died had very clear white dots all over him and the ones remaining have a few right now too.
 
I am not sure of the name of the algae eater, he is pretty small, brown with yellow spots. - I might be able to track it down searching
 
We did remove the Carbon Filter and have a new one to replace it once we are done treatment, the temperature is 29 degrees Celsius.
 
Thanks again

I think the algae eater is some kind of pleco.. maybe that will help, could mean absolutely nothing, I don't know haha

 

[D34DLY]

We went away at one point for two days and we turned the light off so as not to stress out the fish, someone came in to feed them each day, but we didn’t take into account the temperature drop from having the light off

 
Hey there!,
First off let me begin by welcoming you to the hobby! Although your losses are unfortunate, they provide you the chance to learn from you mistakes and ensure you know what to do should this occur next time.
As I have pointed out at the beginning of my reply, you mentioned a temperature drop when the lights go off. It is important that the lights you use are not your main source of heat for the tank. You should get a dedicated aquarium heater of the appropiate wattage instead. If you already have a heater, then even with the lights off the water should remain the right temperature. If it doesn't, please check that you heater is working. You may have a heater to weak to heat your entire tank. If this is the case, an upgrade in wattage is required.
 

 

[lrhodes]

You might should have just kept your old filter cartridge. And kept it in Like a zip lock bag. Other wise you're tank is going to uncycle itself... I think that's how that works. ich can't survive so many days without attaching to a host. So... the old filter shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Chester]

You might should have just kept your old filter cartridge. And kept it in Like a zip lock bag. Other wise you're tank is going to uncycle itself... I think that's how that works.

ich can't survive so many days without attaching to a host. So... the old filter shouldn't be a problem.

 
Thanks, I think that the medication for Ich kind of un-cycles your tank anyway, it kills everything in there, we expected to have to cycle it again once the Ich was gone.
 
Reese I will look into the heater, we have the light off right now to keep down the stress on the fish and we just increased the temp, from what I understand my boyfriend leaves the heater down a bit because the light also heats the water, so when we left it off for a few days, he should have increased the temperature on the heater to make up the difference. I will keep an eye on the temp though now that the lights are going to be off for a few days.
 
Thanks

 

[Chester]

How do I know which disease they might have?
 
The more I read the more I am not so sure... One website described fluke as like color fading, excess mucus and red gills... I do feel their gills are a little red, and the tetra's especially are losing their color, the way they describe them like dying is how I have been losing the guppies but I didn't see the Tetra sick (other then spots) he was acting normal and then dead by morning.
 
We have already started treatment for Ich, could we have both? Can we treat for both at the same time without wiping everything out?  
 
Poor fish...

 

[lrhodes]

Ich looks like they have specks of sand all over their body. Are they scratching themselves on anything?

 

[l_l_l]

Hi and welcome!
I really hope you settle this once and for all!
 
First of all, your fish might be victim of fungus, I am not sure tho and if you could post a few pictures of the fish, it would be really helpful!
 
Fishkeeping is not as easy as one might think and a lot of thought has to be given to whatever you choose to do with your aquarium.
 
When I first started I was really foolish but I am glad I never abandonned.
 
First of all, there are a few things wrong with your tank.
 
1. You don't seem to have a dedicated heater in your aquarium, I highly suggest you get one, and don't skimp on the quality of this as a faulty heater is not something you want in your home.
I'm not sure if you already have one but if you do, you shouldn't have to mess with it's settings once it's at the proper temperature.
Most heaters are designed to stop when the temperature is at a certain temp.
 
2. If you get a heater, make sure you also get a thermometer (I'm thinking you already have one since you gave us the temperature of your tank)
 
3. You have tetras in your tank but only have a few of them. Tetras are shoaling fish that needs to be in large numbers to feel happy and less stressed, the more your fish are stressed, the higher the risks of them being sick. Tetras generally need to be in groups of 6+
 
4. Your algea eater is most likely a common pleco and will eventually outgrow the tank, please take a picture of it and we will be able to identify it. Most plecos produce a lot of waste and should not really be in a 30 gallon aquarium.
 
________
 
As for your problem.
Ich will look like grains of salt/sugar on their body, the fish will rub against anything. If it's anything larger than a grain of salt/sugar, it's something else. If it looks like wool or else, it might be fungus.
 
As I said, please post pictures, and we'll help!
 
I hope you don't let this story discourage you from fishkeeping because it is a really gratifying hobby!

 

[Chester]

please post pictures, and we'll help!

 
Wow... well that was much more difficult then I anticipated.. haha
 
Thanks again for the replies, much appreciated!
 
Just to answer a few questions from above, yes the Guppies are definitely scraping against stuff, I think the Tetra's are but not as much.
We would like to get more Tetra's but we are going to wait for a bit (until we stop killing fish..), in fact, I am realizing now we should have a quarantine tank and I am not sure how we will swing that right now, so I am not really sure when we will be increasing their numbers. I also just looked into the Pleco after someone asked what kind of Algae eater we have and I was a little concerned to realize how big he would get, it is unbelievable how much the pet stores don't know/care..
 
I will need to look into the heater, not sure if we still have the box, if it isn't up to par we will have to get a new one for sure, and yes we have a proper thermometer on the tank.
 
I hope these photo's and information clear up some questions

 
Also, I can't add a pic of the Pleco right now, can't get a good photo, wish I could get better photo's of the guppies but they don't stay still for more then a split second... it is hard to see the spots on them anyway, but the red gills show up pretty clear on one of them not the other..
 
Thanks

 

[Chester]

Hi, back again...
 
I finally got a picture of the Guppies, still not great but they stayed still for more then a second and I caught them.
Also have the Algae eater in there... not sure if he is a pleco or a something nose catfish... bristle?
 
Anyway... we just kinda impulse bought an 85 gallon tank... so, whether is he is a pleco or not, we will have room for him... sigh*
 
Anyway here they are, thanks again for the help!

 

[tunagirll]

Hi there! I'm sorry you're having to endure a 'baptism of fire' - if it helps everyone on this forum was in the same boat, once

I was too only a few months ago and I feel your pain. xx
 
There's a few things going on at once which is probably not helping your feelings of panic - fortunately all can be dealt with by you!
 
1. Sick fish - you need to treat your tank for ich.
 
First off, if you have plants in the tank remove them - the treatment will probably kill them. Pop them somewhere a bit more friendly
Read this through before starting so you understand what you're doing first..
 
Ich can't attach to fish above a certain salt concentration, and they must attach to a fish to survive its life cycle, around a week. So we make it so they can't attach, forcing them to cycle and die horrible. haha!
 
Add salt (table salt or kosher) to your tank at 2 teaspoons per gallon. To add salt, mix it with some of your tank water in small volumes and add to your tank. Never dump salt in directly without dissolving it! Let your fish get used to the salt by adding in increments. Add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon once an hour for four hours, then add 1/4 teaspoon per gallon every four hours four times to get your total of 2 teaspoons per gallon. Keep on eye on your fish for signs of stress as you increase the salt and if they are not handling it, increase the intervals between salt additions.
 
During treatment, increase the temperature of the tank to at least 28 degrees C. I'm not too familiar with guppies or plecos, but if they will tolerate the heat, increasing the temp to 30 degrees C will help kill the ich outright and speed up their cycle.
 
This treatment should be done for at least two weeks to ensure you kill the ich in the tank as well as on the fish. Your filter can keep running with its carbon in as the carbon does not affect the salt in the tank. Continue to change your water twice a week, or more often (in your case it's possible you will need to do them more regularly because the tank isn't cycled fully) just prepare the replacement water so it's dechlorinated, the same temperature (within a couple of degrees), and at the same concentration of salt!
 
After treatment, reduce the salt and bring the temperature back slowly in reverse of these instructions
 
2. Getting a healthy tank -
 
If you don't have a liquid test kit, do yourself a favour and invest in one. They have saved my fishies many times over The test strips just aren't accurate.
 
If your tank temp is fluctuating, chances are your heater isn't strong enough for the tank. you may need a bigger wattage, and it won't hurt to have a spare for that time your heater dies when the shops are shut! The adjustable temp ones will switch off when the water is warm enough, so not a problem running them with lights. You'll still need a thermometer in the tank water to know what to set it to for the right water temp, as heaters are consistent but the actual settings can be out by a degree or two
 
If you can scrounge from a friend, get some of their filter media for immediate cycling. Otherwise don't bother with bottled cycling products - they're a pain in the arse (ask me how I know!). The only real way to cycle your tank is to grow your bacteria with good conditions and to be patient Because you have fish it will take longer because as you already know it's important to keep them comfy with water changes while the process goes on.
 
Last you might have to wait a little before adding more fish, but it might be an idea to add more companion fish for your guppies to have to appropriate number, to reduce stress, prior to treating for ich (as it's likely you will just add more with new fish from the lfs)
 
Finally good luck and perservere and vent away on the forum, you will get there!

 

[lrhodes]

When I was attempting to treat ich, the salt heat method almost killed all my fish... I have guppies and plecos in that tank. Its hard to tell from your picture. But I would guess maybe a bristle nose pleco? Or common. But either way, be careful treating them. Because they are considered scaleless fish. With most meds you have to do half dose. And they don't do well with salt either.