Dilemma (updated)

[Squid]

Right.. I have a slight dilemma this weekend.

I have been cycling my tank for about 5 weeks now (few issues mid way through).. and its almost there.. i get 0 ammonia after 12 hours, and .15-.25 of nitrites.. In fact a couple of days ago i must have added slighty less ammonia and it all fully cycle.. so, i'm getting there.

now.. im going away this weekend, friday to monday, and there is going to be nobody to add ammonia, so i have 2 options if it has not finished by then..(as i dont think adding a load of food will keep it this cycled properly)

1. leave it for the weekend, and suffer the almost complete loss of the cycle.

2. wait an extra hour or two until the nitrite has gone completely, or add slightly less on thursday night so that the nitrites read 0, then do the big water change and add the fish..

From what i understand, the fishless cycle provides a bio-load above that required for a full stocking of the tank, and so if you add some fish, then the bacteria will die back a bit anyhow.. i will not be adding all the fish in one go, and no way near overstocking.. so... do you think option 2 would be ok. The tank should be able to cycle the ammount of ammonia produced by the fish??

I know some people will start the lectures about there must be 0 ammonia and nitrites... i am asking if that will be the case, as the tank can cycle a fair ammount of ammonia, and the fish will provide less that it can currently cycle.

Im off for a day or so now.. so i look forward to your replies (the missus is adding amonia for me.)

Fingers crossed it might all be ready anyway!!!

Cheers
Squid

 

[karlp]

Hi Squid

I think I'd be tempted to double or triple dose the Ammonia before going away for the weekend, so that the amount of Ammonia is too much for the bacteria culture to consume in a single 24 hour period and there is still Ammonia being converted to nitrite after the first 24 hours.

IMHO you don't want to be adding fish and then just leaving them straight away. the First 24 hours are normally where most of the problems become apparent and it would be totally disheartening to come back to a tank full of floaters

 

[piper]

Yeah just stick in a load of ammonia

 

[Wanda hornsey]

bitter experience says dont add fish....hope all goes fine I have my fingers crossed for you

 

[cujoho78]

Hi. I agree with the other posters that it is risky to add the fish and go away. The first couple days are the most difficult and if you aren't around to monitor the water then you could come home to dead fish. In my opinion, you should continue to do what you are doing, go away for the weekend, and when you get back add a few fish. Then monitor the water everyday testing for ammonia and nitrite, and do small water changes if either of them get to 0.25 or more. I usually always do a small 10% water change every day in my quarantine tank for about a week when i get new fish. That way i am sure that the ammonia won't build up. Good luck.

 

[Squid]

Thanks for your replies..

Will 2-3 days of ammonia in one go cause any problems.. thats a fair amount..

also.. will the ammonia bacteria just end up multiplying, getting through it in a shorter time, and end up with a day or so with no ammonia source??

 

[Squid]

Right..

this morning, my ammonia reading is still 0, and my nitrite reading is a fraction above 0, i.e. its blue, but not the aqua blue, but certainly not purple (API test kit). - although it still has 1 hour to make 12 hours after adding the ammonia..

Iam now not going away until tomorrow morning, so, looking at my first question when i started the thread.. would you do option 1 or option 2, as i will be able to see if the bioload is ok for the first 24 hours now..

im only adding 6 pentazona, 5 cory's, talking catfish, 2 angels and 2 gouramis. which is not fully stocked for a 47 gallon tank. However, i dont want to endanger the fish..

also, any comment whether adding 2-3 days worth of ammonia would be detremental to the tank, which people are suggesting?

Squid

 

[annka5]

Bit of a dilemma indeed!
Firstly, I don't think the bacteria will die off totally in a couple of days - you'll have some die-back, but not the full load, IMO. Second, it is possible if unlikely to add so much ammonia at one time that it becomes toxic even to the bacteria.
Option 1 - I would still recommend agains it, if only because of the risk that you come back to nitrite requiring daily large water changes and /or dead fish, after all your pateints it does seem harsh to jeopardise it at the last hurdle.
Option 2 - Not without its problems, am sure it would have to delay your cycle ending a bit, but NOT by any means re-start it from scratch.
Why would you not consider adding food to the tank? More of a slow release of ammonia as it rots to keep the filter fed whilst your away? It does seem teh easiest solution, but am sure there are pitfalls you've seen that I am missing...?

 

[karlp]

Hi Squid

It's entirely up to you and from your very specific list of fish you're planning to add, I kind of think you've already decided what you're going to do... but.. my tuppence worth is...

Confucius say the biggest killer of fish is our own impatience

I would personally only add new fish to a tank when I know I am going to be around for a few days to keep an eye on them. In a cycled tank, most disease outbreaks and fatalities happen within the first 1 to 3 days of adding new fish and you really want to be there to catch it if it happens.

I would also suggest that you pick maybe 8 fish off your stocking list to add when you get back (and the Ammonia and NO2 are 0) and see how they get on before adding a whole lot more and then only add a few each week. If there's one thing worse than treating 8 fish with whitespot it's treating 16 fish with whitespot!

With regard the Ammonia question, add extra aeration to the tank to keep the oxygen levels up and don't let sunlight get to the tank (because the extra ammonia could cause an algae bloom) and it should be fine. Even if the bacteria do manage to consume the extra ammonia in the time you are away, it should only incur a mini-cycle.

Cheers

 

[Squid]

thanks annka.. appreiciate you commenting... (although i think you got the options the wrong way round , i understood you though )

i am going to go with the waiting option... i may do a combination of adding ammonia, and something that breaks down more slowly..

Oh, and yes, how patient have i been. bah.. the longest fishless cycle in history.. unfortunately, it was me not realising i had a PH crash halfway through, will set back the cycle by a week or two. still you live and learn, and i will take a look at what i have on monday and go from there..

once again.. thanks all for your commetns.

Squid

 

[Squid]

Fishy mad.. just seen your post.. I know you have the fishes intrest in mind, but you may have mistaken me for an overeager newbie.. newbie yes, overeagre.. no.. i have spent a long time posting questions on this forum to best understand what to do.. the extension of this question was because of the change of variables. I was just checking .. nothing wrong with checking.

Hi Squid

It's entirely up to you and from your very specific list of fish you're planning to add, I kind of think you've already decided what you're going to do... but.. my tuppence worth is...

Confucius say the biggest killer of fish is our own impatience

no... i had not made up my mind.. only because the circumstances had changed slightly. i have always had the interest of the fish at the forefront. Please dont mistake me for one of those people who keep asking the same question until they get the reply they are looking for. I know they type, and see it often.. as you can see by my last post, i wanted to check after my plans changes slightly, and have already opted for the safe option and have already added my next lot of ammonia..

Also... i have a very specific list of fish, as i have been planning this for months, and doing my research.. i was not waiting till the cycle finished to decide on the fish.. that is the only reason why the stocking was definitive.. In fact it is not all the fish i will be adding, as i would like some ottos too, but i know that i need to wait until the tank is more mature before i add them.

I would personally only add new fish to a tank when I know I am going to be around for a few days to keep an eye on them. In a cycled tank, most disease outbreaks and fatalities happen within the first 1 to 3 days of adding new fish and you really want to be there to catch it if it happens.

I would also suggest that you pick maybe 8 fish off your stocking list to add when you get back (and the Ammonia and NO2 are 0) and see how they get on before adding a whole lot more and then only add a few each week. If there's one thing worse than treating 8 fish with whitespot it's treating 16 fish with whitespot!

I totally agree with these comments, and i have chosen to wait. it was just that most people were saying it was the first 24 hours that were important. ..

With regard the Ammonia question, add extra aeration to the tank to keep the oxygen levels up and don't let sunlight get to the tank (because the extra ammonia could cause an algae bloom) and it should be fine. Even if the bacteria do manage to consume the extra ammonia in the time you are away, it should only incur a mini-cycle.

thanks.. curtains shut, light off, and venturi bubbles to the maximum then

As i said fishy, much appreciated.. just dont assume im one of THOSE.. if you know what i mean.

Cheers
Squid

 

[annka5]

So, what happened then...? Is all well, ready to add the fish ...?

 

[Squid]

So, what happened then...? Is all well, ready to add the fish ...?

Annka5..........

Ah.. sorry.. only just noticed this...

i came back to a tank with a bit of a PH crash again, and some dead valis spirals (oops.. forgot the light, and this type of valis is not so hardy when cycling a tank and forgetting the light)..

Luckily, i took the advice and did not put in the fish..

So.. a bit of a water changes, and the tank finished off the cycle by the wednesda night.. so thursday, i did the big water change again, and set off to the LFS for some fish and new valis.. I did not put in the full stocking (even though RDD and others said it would be fine), but put in a good number of fish, but not ones like rams or otos that like a more mature tank.

Its now monday (so day 5) and the stats have been at 0 for ammonia and nitrites.. phew... and not bacterial infections or anything..

so... all in all, im glad i took the advice and waited.. im happy as you like at the moment..

Here is the link to some pics of my new fishies..


Thanks for asking..

Squid