Debate

[shelaghfishface]

yes i agree in part that advice shouldbe given, but if i really fancy a trio of platys that obviously will breed,am i going to forget to mention the fact that i only have a 15 litre tank??
and sadley as we know too well, there are bloody idiots in this country that will go and buy a " status" dog such as a rottweiler when there are small kids in the home,whith horrendous concequences ( usually for the small kids), i have never ( at least dont recall) being in a pet shop that dosent sell a fish books,im sure if you went to buy your puppy from a puppy farm, the breeders wouldnt really care where it was going, all they see is ££££ signs,and if you went to a breeder of fish, im sure they would take a very diffrent route,it all depends on the ethics,conscence,and morals of bothe buyer and seller. both have to be honest and volunteer info,without it, things will never change
shelagh xxx


EDIT*** self inflicated, but i do feel sorry for you ( BANG) oops sorry

 

[emmsy]

sssshhhh

 

[Tolak]

How is the lfs to determine who doesn't know better from who does? Whatever method they use is going to tie up resources in an industry which is becoming increasingly more competitive. As it is the smaller independent shops are being out priced & out marketed by your corporate run shops, and these are the ones that are most likely to give sound advice, and perhaps screen a customer before a purchase.

I regards to the bully breeds, temperament is something a good breeder works on, and someone who actually does some serious research into rotts will realize this. They will also realize with the proper breeding behind them rotts make fine family dogs.

I agree that info regarding fish is much more sparse, all the more reason to do your homework. I think that generally sellers & buyers alike have less regard for fish, being a lower life form than a mammal. This in itself will cause less information to be conveyed.

Another part, regarding shops, is that many sell a wide range of pets. They will without a doubt spend more time with someone buying something more high end, such as a dog or cat, than someone buying a few guppys. This is, once again, plain business sense. Does it make it right? Once again ethics.

 

[emmsy]

"but if i really fancy a trio of platys that obviously will breed"


stop! thats my point. It is not obvious at all. Noobies may not know how they breed, or conditions needed to breed.




"I think that generally sellers & buyers alike have less regard for fish, being a lower life form than a mammal. This in itself will cause less information to be conveyed."



YES! Thats where the attidutde part comes in I was referring to earlier

Emma

 

[Tolak]

Basic biology tells us that to reproduce, for most species you need a male & female of the same species. Most everyone 12 years of age or older has this one figured out. I do not feel that it is up to the lfs to play biology teacher.

 

[emmsy]

I knew you were going to say that, but its not strictly true. Some species of fish can co-habit without reproducing...Some need a choice of males/females before forming a pair....anyway, I think it is also down to education how many fry are produced (going back to my convict example). I think if people thought you would be left with one or two babies are produced, then there wouldn't be a problem.What you actually end up with is alot and thats where the problem lies. As was pointed out , the Darwinism effect kicks in, so not all will survive, but then you are still left with more babies than you expected.

Emma

 

[WILDER]

I agree with tolak and I respect him as a fishkeeper and mod on this site.

 

[emmsy]

Oh, me too, but I like a good debate which involves alot of peoples opinions

Emma

 

[WILDER]

Lfs don't care if fish breed, there out to make money.
Need more education in lfs staff so they can pass there knowledge onto customers.

 

[emmsy]

Lfs don't care if fish breed, there out to make money.
Need more education in lfs staff so they can pass there knowledge onto customers.

So what would you say Wilder, Is it the responsibility of the LFS or the purchaser to educate about fry and consequesnces that follow?

Emma x

 

[WILDER]

I'm not a good writer so find it hard to join in debates.
I think its down to both really, lfs should get information from the customer and point them in the right directiion.
But I do think its mainly down to the customer to research before they buy.

 

[emmsy]

Thank you for your input mate, and to join a debate you don't have to be a good writer. I know a debate can seem like a personal attack on someone, or that the person who starts the debate is appearing to be a know it all, but so many people can learn for debates and everyones input, however small and concise is valid. I apologise if I appeared to be arguing with Tolak, but that wasn't the case, It was me in debate mode.

With the responsibility being with the LFS, they have more resources and experience to deliver advice, where as the customer, especially if he/she has no access to the internet, will find it hard to research.

Emma

 

[WILDER]

I'm for better education and better animal welfare but it won't happen overnight or if ever.
I do agree lfs staff need more training and maybe need to take a course on fish keeping etc.

 

[SPLiSH]

I've just come back from a holiday in Queensland Australia and whilst there I visited a few aquarist shops and most of them sold feeder fish. (Guppies etc)
Not really a practice here in the UK.
Regards
BigC

Almost every shop in the area does, mainly barbs or comet goldfish. What shops did you visit? I've been doing a lot if fishie shopping lately, maybe I walked past you

I am of the opinion that if fish spawn unplanned in a tank, and the parents and or other fish eat the fry, it's just letting nature take it's course. It's probably more instant as a form of death than disease etc. anyway. I wouldn't feed fry directly to other fish, or raise them for that purpose.

 

[brads]

I dont have any live bearers so I dont have this problem. But if I had my approch would be if I get to them in time before they are eaten then they would go into a fry net. If i'm not around at the time the little ones arrive and they get eaten I would take it as nature following it's course.

Brads