Deaths And Disappearances

[Mogul]

Hi,

I'm in the second month of my aquarium now and I'm getting varied results. I have a pair of pregnant platty which is great.

On the bad side, another platty has vanished without a trace. Last Saturday I went to get my last installment of fish. Four neon tetras, four male guppies and a clown loach.

By today, (Wednesday), one of the tetra has mysteriously vanished just like the platty did before. Another tetra was found dead, and just today my favourite guppy seemed a little lame and a few hours later was also dead.

I'm just wondering what could have caused any of this.

I've been changing my water regularly. All the other fish seem healthy enough. All the plants are green now and growing so I'm not convinced it is to do with my water quality.

The most obvious explanation to fish disappearing is that another fish ate them.

The other fish in my tank are a catfish that I don't know the name of, the guy in the store called it a "plec". I have a red finned shark and an angel fish.

Could the catfish be eating my other fish or laming them?

In my dad's tank a few years back I saw a rather large "plec" attack and kill an angel fish. I've also seen my own red finned shark behaving fairly aggressively.

What should I do?

Also, can you add new fish to the tank at any point? Say, I want to get a Siamese fighting fish but haven't been able to find one yet, is it safe for me to add one to my tank without the other fish deciding to attack it?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[beux]

I had some missing fish...I was totally confused, two of them had died and got caught in plants where they had rotted pretty quickly to the point where they were barely noticable...and another dug under a rock and got stuck where it unfortunately died...it took me ages to find them....(these were at totally different times...)

Siamese fighting fish are pretty aggressive - they don't mix well with very many fish at all. Red Finned sharks can also be quite aggressive towards other tank mates especially when they get older. If your going to keep aggressive fish then it's better to keep them with tank mates that can hold their own (e.g. same size or bigger - but then again if they are aggressive too they may bully the smaller one).

I'm not a guru on fish fights but I'd say the catfish is probably the least likely culprit if it is a fish that has been killing the fish. Angelfish can be quite aggressive to.

Is your tank cycled? And what are the water stats? It could be the water quality....have a *good* look around for the 'missing' fish, they will probably resemble white fluffy skeletons by now.

 

[moray]

depending on what sort of cat fish it is, alot of catfish would eat your smaller fish, though if it's a plec of some sort they tend to be ok, you really need to i.d. it. Angels can be aggressive as can the shark. Angel fishes natural diet is neons by the way (so not the best mix). clown loaches also need to be kept in groups of 3 or more as they are shoaling fish. I think you need to seriously revise your stocking list, if you put down the size of the tank, I'm sure tff members can give you some tips on what can go with what. I hope you don't lose any more fish.

 

[Mogul]

Okay...lol....u learn something every day.

I never knew Angelfish ate neons. I won't be getting any more neons now. I also don't think I should get a Siamese fighting fish anymore. At least not in this tank.

The catfish, I think, is a Liposarcus multuradiatus. Info found at http/badmanstropicalfish.com/profiles/profile34.html.

The shark was young and small when I got it but now it has grown quite a bit. It spends most of its time inside a cave and really kicks off when anything else goes inside.

The clown loach I bought last week because I told the girl in the store I had a snail problem. She said clown loaches eat snails and recommended me to buy one, so I did. The snail population has gone down quite a bit.

My tank is about 140 litres and not correctly cycled. Though I think there will be some good bacteria in the tank. I gave it a course of StressZyme back when I started it.

To revise my stocking:

I'm willing to get rid of the shark and replace it with another couple of clown loaches as suggested by moray. I think the platty shall stay. There is already an angel fish. Can anybody see any problem with guppies in this combination?
And if anybody can suggest any other fish to add to the tank, I'd appreciate your input.

Thanks everybody.

 

[chrismr]

Firstly, I woud recommend you return the clown loach. As said they need to be kept in groups, but they also grow very large and if your tank is only 140 litres it is nowhere near big enough. The girl really should have asked about your setup first.

If you want loaches there are many out there which will be fine in your tank, such as botia striata. But I think any loach might get a beating from the RTBS...

Secondly, the plec, if it is that one pictured, will get too big for that tank too. Taking that site you listed as an example, it grows up to 20 inches.... try measuring your tank and then imagine a 20" fish in there.

As an alternative to the plec, ask your LFS if they have any bristlenose catfish (ancistrus) or a clown plec, as they do not get too big.

I would be hesitant to mix guppies with RTBS and angels, and as you have hear, neons can be a bad idea.

 

[moray]

Just quickly - to be honest if the tank isn't correctly cycled I wouldn't get any more fish until cycling is complete.

For the future clown loaches do get big as chrismr says but they are slow growers so if you are thinking in the future of upgrading your tank they should be ok. apart from that I agree with all Chrismrs advice. Angels and rtbs are nippy so don't put anything longfinned in with them.

The Siamese fighter would probably have been dead with in the day of you introducing it - though they are aggressive towards each other they are quite delicate fish and nippy angels would have hammered it.

 

[chrismr]

For the future clown loaches do get big as chrismr says but they are slow growers

In my experience, they initially grow rather quickly. I bought threee small ones for my 30 gallon previously, and honestly they grew rather quickly and were needing rehoming before very long. I would simply suggest, if the tank is not big enough for them, rather don't get them.

I know there is always the option of getting a larger tank soon- but to be honest, this is not something you can usually gaurantee. One reason being the sheer hassle of replacing one tank with another, you never know what financial restrictions might come up... the list can go on.

The tank has been running for 2 months now, so really any cycling should be done in theory.... can you let us know what the nitrates, etc are in your tank?

Not trying to be a pooper here. Trying to help making same mistakes myself and many others have made in the past.

 

[SamUK]

clown loaches shouldnt be in a small tank even when they are small.


there one of the most active fish ive seen and my 5 are constantly flying all over the tank.

 

[Mogul]

The catfish may not be that one, but it is certainly very similar. My dad had a fully grown one years ago which wasn't 20 inches long. It was probably 10-15 inches (never measured at the time) and it survived okay in the tank. I think by the end of my dad's attempt at keeping fish, it was the only one that did not die.

So, it has been established now that angel fish are much more aggressive that I first thought or ever knew.

The options appear to be as follow:

Platty stay whatever.

If angel fish stays, the remaining neon and the guppies will have to go. The shark has proved that it can look after itself (and just because it is nearly impossible to catch i'll leave it).

I should probably get another angel fish then.

What can I put with platty and angel fish, the shark and the plec?

Second question:

If I cycle the tank, where do I put the fish during cycling? I just read a website that says cycling with fish inside is not so good.

I do have a very small tank, the kind of size you see in the fish store... I may get that working shortly. I could put the guppies in there. I'll probably have to put the pregnant platty in soon until after it births.

 

[chrismr]

What are your water stats? Have you got a test to determine ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels in the tank?