Cycling At Low Ph...
- Thread starter Spanerman
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Hi Spanerman,
The low pH is almost certainly the cause of the slow cycling. At pH 6, the bacteria are starting to become dormant. This is around the level where a fishless cycle usually starts to stall. At pH 5.5, the bacteria actually start to die off.
The best thing to do to speed it up depends on the circumstances. Is it a fishless or fish-in cycle?
Cheers
BTT
The low pH is almost certainly the cause of the slow cycling. At pH 6, the bacteria are starting to become dormant. This is around the level where a fishless cycle usually starts to stall. At pH 5.5, the bacteria actually start to die off.
The best thing to do to speed it up depends on the circumstances. Is it a fishless or fish-in cycle?
Cheers
BTT
You definitely don't want to mess with the pH on a regular basis but during a fishless cycle, it isn't as big an issue because there aren't any fish in the tank to be bothered by swings. About the only way you will get the cycle going is if you cn adjust he pH some way. If it's reading 6 on your chart and you are using the API kit, then it's possible it could be even lower since that is the lowest reading on the chart.
I would try some baking soda or crushed coral until you get cycled. After that, depending on the fish you want to keep, a pH of 6 will be fine. Of course, if you go the cruched coral route, it will continue to buffer the water up as long as it's in the water flow.
I would try some baking soda or crushed coral until you get cycled. After that, depending on the fish you want to keep, a pH of 6 will be fine. Of course, if you go the cruched coral route, it will continue to buffer the water up as long as it's in the water flow.
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Yes, agree that your situation cries out for buffering assistance. The current advice we've used often (not saying it couldn't potentially be improved but its what seems to have been working for people) is to advise baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) during the fishless cycle and then just water changes or possibly crushed coral if its felt added buffering is still needed after the fishless cycle is over and you have fish. I'll outline this.
First, its a good idea to go ahead and do a large water change (70% or whatever large amount might be convenient without having to turn off your filter) just prior to adding the baking soda, so that the tap water will at least add some Ca and Mg. The Ca is another thing the beneficial bacteria use a little of. The baking soda (yes, from the kitchen, and make sure its not baking powder!) can be added in some amount you decide on and then modified up or down some later, its not too critical. To find a starting point, consider that 1 teaspoon per 50 liters of water will usually raise KH by 4 german degrees without having much effect on pH. So you could calculate that out for your tank volume and put in more than that, possibly even doubling, or whatever you're comfortable with. Don't forget to also recharge your ammonia back up to 5ppm after the large water change.
With a pH of 6, its a good bet you have low KH and GH (KH is carbonate (aka temporary) hardness, which measures carbonate ions available, and GH is general hardness, which measures mostly the overall Calcium and Magnesium (and a couple others) salts dissolved in the water) but its not guaranteed, as each of these things, pH, KH and GH are technically different things. You're going to need to start making pH part of your daily, then twice daily, stats that you record in your notebook during fishless cycling. If you are watchful, you'll develop a feel for when to perform another water change and recharge your baking soda and ammonia. You can get by with that or you can consider getting a KH/GH kit to help you have more information about what's going on with your water. It can help you "see ahead" to know sooner when a sharp pH drop is coming.
~~waterdrop~~
First, its a good idea to go ahead and do a large water change (70% or whatever large amount might be convenient without having to turn off your filter) just prior to adding the baking soda, so that the tap water will at least add some Ca and Mg. The Ca is another thing the beneficial bacteria use a little of. The baking soda (yes, from the kitchen, and make sure its not baking powder!) can be added in some amount you decide on and then modified up or down some later, its not too critical. To find a starting point, consider that 1 teaspoon per 50 liters of water will usually raise KH by 4 german degrees without having much effect on pH. So you could calculate that out for your tank volume and put in more than that, possibly even doubling, or whatever you're comfortable with. Don't forget to also recharge your ammonia back up to 5ppm after the large water change.
With a pH of 6, its a good bet you have low KH and GH (KH is carbonate (aka temporary) hardness, which measures carbonate ions available, and GH is general hardness, which measures mostly the overall Calcium and Magnesium (and a couple others) salts dissolved in the water) but its not guaranteed, as each of these things, pH, KH and GH are technically different things. You're going to need to start making pH part of your daily, then twice daily, stats that you record in your notebook during fishless cycling. If you are watchful, you'll develop a feel for when to perform another water change and recharge your baking soda and ammonia. You can get by with that or you can consider getting a KH/GH kit to help you have more information about what's going on with your water. It can help you "see ahead" to know sooner when a sharp pH drop is coming.
~~waterdrop~~
fatheadminnow
Fish Aficionado
Sorry to "steal" this thread, but will a very high pH, say 9 or so, also stall a cycle?
Thanks...asking for a friend.
-FHM
Thanks...asking for a friend.
-FHM
Yes. You really want it to optimally be between 7 & 8 or at least the mid 6s on the low end.
fatheadminnow
Fish Aficionado
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If your pH only fell to 6, your bacteria should just have slowed down. If it got down to 5.5, you will probably have experienced some die off.
Is 6 the lowest reading on your pH test? If so, it'll be difficult to tell which situation applies to you.
Only tests will tell.............
BTT
Is 6 the lowest reading on your pH test? If so, it'll be difficult to tell which situation applies to you.
Only tests will tell.............
BTT
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
It won't have killed it. There are reports that pH 5.5 starts to kill them, but we've had people report being down at pH 5.0 and then the bacteria have come back to life doing good processing once the pH is put up where it needs to be. -wd-
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I think both are correct, WD. Whilst the bacteria will start to die off at pH 5.5, it will happen quite slowly. If the ph was at 5 for maybe a day or so, the filter will probably recover quite quickly, but if it was maybe a week, the bacteria may not bounce back so easily.
Of course, this is purely based on assumption, as I'm not aware of any studies covering this area......
Thoughts?
waterdrop
Enthusiastic "Re-Beginner"
Yes, absolutely agree, that's what I was trying to say. I was just pleased recently when one of our very own beginner cyclers had measured 5.0 for a day or two but it came back nicely.
WD
You guys are stars!
last night i did 2 70% water changes, added 4ppm of ammonia and today 14hours later ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrates are around 20ppm
time to start qualifying week? i think im going to need to get another ammonia test kit though!
last night i did 2 70% water changes, added 4ppm of ammonia and today 14hours later ammonia and nitrite are 0 and nitrates are around 20ppm
time to start qualifying week? i think im going to need to get another ammonia test kit though!
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