Cycling and stocking questions

[Pricey_Jnr]

Hello everyone! I'm currently cycling my tank whilst following the guide posted on here.
I'm currently on day 29 and 2 days ago (day 27) I added my 'snack' dose of ammonia. Tested my water today with these results..
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 5+ppm
Nitrate 5/10ppm.
I want to ask how long can the bacteria survive without any ammonia? The guide states that I should only need one snack dose, should I give it another snack dose on my next test which will be day 31, only if the Nitrite is still 5+ppm?

Sorry if any of that is confusing! I just don't want to stall my cycle is all!


Now for stocking!

I have fairly soft water, with parameters as follows..
Tap:
pH - 6.6
GH - 4°
KH - 2°

Tank: 125Litre, 27.5 Imperial Gallon, 33 US Gallon.
L=31.5" W=14" H=18"
pH - (waiting until tank is cycled as the ammonia raised it)
GH - 5°
KH - 3°
I have natural gravel which may be raising the hardness slightly?

I'm a lover of the South American Cichlids and I think my water parameters would suit them quite well, but I'm fairly positive my tank is too small for Angelfish which is a shame. I'm definitely drawn towards Electric Blue Rams, BN Plecos, Dwarf Gourami's but not sure what to have, if anyone could suggest any other species or tank mates I'd be very grateful!

Thanks in advance!

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[Byron]

I'll comment on the stocking. You have soft water as mentioned, so you are looking at the suitable fish species. Angelfish are out as they grow too large.

If you want blue rams, a single ram or a bonded pair would work as far as the space goes. But this species needs warm water, warmer than the majority of "tropical" fish. Minimum 80F (27 C) but a tad higher wouldn't hurt. The issue here is that your options for tankmates is very limited by this high a temperature.

Other dwarf cichlids such as one of the Apistogramma species are another option. In most cases you would want either a bonded pair or a harem depending upon the species.

Dwarf gourami is a risk unless you know a breeder and obtain the fish from there; fish in stores may likely be from SE Asia and they can still carry the iridovirus which is untreatable. The Honey Gourami is a safer but similar gourami, and a trio (one male, two females) would work here.

A Bristlenose pleco is fine; they must have real wood to provide bacteria for their intestinal tract.

Tankmates for most of the dwarf cichlids could include some of the species in Nannostomus (the pencilfishes), hatchetfish inb the genus Carnegiella, and some of the smaller tetras or rasbora. Cories are OK if the temperature remains lower than for the ram, but if you want fry to survive from the cichlids this is not a good mix as cories are very adept at devouring eggs or fry in darkness.

 

[Goggy]

About the angelfish, if you really love them and are willing to pay a high price, I would suggest Pterophylum Leopoldi. It is a more unique and rarer angelfish that is only available wild-caught but gets to a size of 2 inches, making it the smallest angelfish and a suitable choice for your tank.

http://theaquariumwiki.com/wiki/Pterophyllum_leopoldi

 

[Pricey_Jnr]

I'll comment on the stocking. You have soft water as mentioned, so you are looking at the suitable fish species. Angelfish are out as they grow too large.

If you want blue rams, a single ram or a bonded pair would work as far as the space goes. But this species needs warm water, warmer than the majority of "tropical" fish. Minimum 80F (27 C) but a tad higher wouldn't hurt. The issue here is that your options for tankmates is very limited by this high a temperature.

Other dwarf cichlids such as one of the Apistogramma species are another option. In most cases you would want either a bonded pair or a harem depending upon the species.

Dwarf gourami is a risk unless you know a breeder and obtain the fish from there; fish in stores may likely be from SE Asia and they can still carry the iridovirus which is untreatable. The Honey Gourami is a safer but similar gourami, and a trio (one male, two females) would work here.

A Bristlenose pleco is fine; they must have real wood to provide bacteria for their intestinal tract.

Tankmates for most of the dwarf cichlids could include some of the species in Nannostomus (the pencilfishes), hatchetfish inb the genus Carnegiella, and some of the smaller tetras or rasbora. Cories are OK if the temperature remains lower than for the ram, but if you want fry to survive from the cichlids this is not a good mix as cories are very adept at devouring eggs or fry in darkness.

Thank you for the suggestions! I do like the look of the hatchet fish for the top of the tank.
Would you say a pair of blue rams, a bn pleco and a pair of hatchets could go well together?

I have bogwood currently soaking ready for the tank, and hopefully some easy care plants in the near future such as Christmas moss and Anubias.

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[Pricey_Jnr]

About the angelfish, if you really love them and are willing to pay a high price, I would suggest Pterophylum Leopoldi. It is a more unique and rarer angelfish that is only available wild-caught but gets to a size of 2 inches, making it the smallest angelfish and a suitable choice for your tank.

http://theaquariumwiki.com/wiki/Pterophyllum_leopoldi

If I ever come across some I'll certainly think about it. Looks like I may have a job trying to find any. Tha ks for that!

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[Byron]

Thank you for the suggestions! I do like the look of the hatchet fish for the top of the tank.
Would you say a pair of blue rams, a bn pleco and a pair of hatchets could go well together?

Hatchetfish belong to the scientific order Characiformes that we commonly refer to as characins, and includes the pencilfishes, tetras, and some others including the piranha. These are all shoaling fish, meaning they live in very large groups often numbering in the hundreds, and in the aquarium they must have a group or they will be severely stressed which weakens them and leads to all sorts of problems health-wise and behaviourially.

Hatchetfish should bee kept in groups of at least seven or eight, preferably a few more, depending uppon the species. Those in Carnegiella which would work best here need 9-10 minimum.

That brings us to temperature. Blue rams need high temperatures, with 27C/80F minimum. The Marble hatchetfish, Carnegiella strigata, has a range of 20-28C (68-82F) so this would mean keeping this species at the high end of its range permanently. This is generallynot a good idea. The range for a species covers the upper and lower limits that the species should be able to tolerate temporarily but not necessarily permanently, the mid-range being the preferred temperature long-term.

The Bristlenose pleco also has issues with very warm water, and its range is 21-26C (70-79F).

As I said previously, the blue ram's temperature requirement will limit options for tankmates.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Hello everyone! I'm currently cycling my tank whilst following the guide posted on here.
I'm currently on day 29 and 2 days ago (day 27) I added my 'snack' dose of ammonia. Tested my water today with these results..
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 5+ppm
Nitrate 5/10ppm.
I want to ask how long can the bacteria survive without any ammonia? The guide states that I should only need one snack dose, should I give it another snack dose on my next test which will be day 31, only if the Nitrite is still 5+ppm?

Sorry if any of that is confusing! I just don't want to stall my cycle is all!

Since no one else addressed this part, I figured I would.


The bacs can go quite a while without ammonia, but would go dormant... we want to avoid that, so we suggest a 'snack dose' every 3-4 days while waiting for the nitrite spike to end. Patience during this part is hard, but it pays off. Having soft water, you may run into a stall just because the inorganic carbon in the tank runs out. Keep an eye on the pH. If it drops sharply, that's what's happened.

To avoid this, you can always do a large water change (75-90%) and re-dose a full dose of ammonia afterwards. This will not stall the cycle, and would offer the bacteria more inorganic carbon they require.


This will also lower your nitrite to be back 'on the scale' afterwards and keep you from running into the issue of that getting too high causing a stall.

You are doing well... keep going!

 

[Pricey_Jnr]

Hatchetfish belong to the scientific order Characiformes that we commonly refer to as characins, and includes the pencilfishes, tetras, and some others including the piranha. These are all shoaling fish, meaning they live in very large groups often numbering in the hundreds, and in the aquarium they must have a group or they will be severely stressed which weakens them and leads to all sorts of problems health-wise and behaviourially.

Hatchetfish should bee kept in groups of at least seven or eight, preferably a few more, depending uppon the species. Those in Carnegiella which would work best here need 9-10 minimum.

That brings us to temperature. Blue rams need high temperatures, with 27C/80F minimum. The Marble hatchetfish, Carnegiella strigata, has a range of 20-28C (68-82F) so this would mean keeping this species at the high end of its range permanently. This is generallynot a good idea. The range for a species covers the upper and lower limits that the species should be able to tolerate temporarily but not necessarily permanently, the mid-range being the preferred temperature long-term.

The Bristlenose pleco also has issues with very warm water, and its range is 21-26C (70-79F).

As I said previously, the blue ram's temperature requirement will limit options for tankmates.

Ahhh I see! So maybe a tank of a single species would do me best. I love the way the Rams are, could watch them for hours on end.
If a BN is out of the question, do you know if I could have anything else with the rams to combat algae?

Also if I were to go with just Rams, what numbers should I look for, before and after any potential pairing off?

All this info is much appreciated btw! I'm soaking it all up like a sponge!



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[Pricey_Jnr]

Since no one else addressed this part, I figured I would.


The bacs can go quite a while without ammonia, but would go dormant... we want to avoid that, so we suggest a 'snack dose' every 3-4 days while waiting for the nitrite spike to end. Patience during this part is hard, but it pays off. Having soft water, you may run into a stall just because the inorganic carbon in the tank runs out. Keep an eye on the pH. If it drops sharply, that's what's happened.

To avoid this, you can always do a large water change (75-90%) and re-dose a full dose of ammonia afterwards. This will not stall the cycle, and would offer the bacteria more inorganic carbon they require.


This will also lower your nitrite to be back 'on the scale' afterwards and keep you from running into the issue of that getting too high causing a stall.

You are doing well... keep going!

Glad someone did [emoji23][emoji106] thank you!
I've been keeping an eye on my pH quite a bit. And shall take your advice if that problem occurs!

Is a pH crash the result of too much Nitrite in the tank due to the bacteria taking too long to process it?

On the bright side if that happens, at least I'll get to test out my method for water changes with a pond pump and large plastering buckets [emoji41] sod lifting bucket after bucket up to my tank!

Thanks again!



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[eaglesaquarium]

Glad someone did [emoji23][emoji106] thank you!
I've been keeping an eye on my pH quite a bit. And shall take your advice if that problem occurs!

Is a pH crash the result of too much Nitrite in the tank due to the bacteria taking too long to process it?

On the bright side if that happens, at least I'll get to test out my method for water changes with a pond pump and large plastering buckets [emoji41] sod lifting bucket after bucket up to my tank!

Thanks again!



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There are multiple reasons for a cycle to crash. The nitrite bacs we are trying to get to populate the tank are the kind that thrive in extremely low concentrations... but when the nitrite builds up too high, we don't get the ones we want.

OR... when the bacs use up the minerals they need, then they stop processing ammonia or nitrite as well... and that's a crash, which is indicated by the pH crash, as the water's buffering ability is gone.


So... a water change takes care of both problems... either lowering the nitrite or replenishing the necessary minerals.

 

[Byron]

Ahhh I see! So maybe a tank of a single species would do me best. I love the way the Rams are, could watch them for hours on end.
If a BN is out of the question, do you know if I could have anything else with the rams to combat algae?

Also if I were to go with just Rams, what numbers should I look for, before and after any potential pairing off?

All this info is much appreciated btw! I'm soaking it all up like a sponge!

First, this tank has space for one ram or a bonded pair. The male will easily consider the entire space as his. To explain a bonded pair...like most neotropical cichlids, the fish must select their mates. They will bond, and generally this lasts for the life of whichever, though there are always exceptions. But spawning will tend to be successful, subject to other fish in the tank that might eat eggs/fry. A male and female that do not bond will not interact normally, though they may spawn a few times before one of them (usually but not always the male) decides enough, and bullies the other over days or weeks, weakening it until it dies. Two males will usually achieve this within a very few weeks.

Combating algae is a matter of the light/nutrient balance. If you have no live plants, then algae is beneficial as it uses nutrients and produces oxygen just like higher plants. With live plants, you work to achieve a balance of light/nutrients sufficient for the plants but no more, so algae is disadvantaged in a sense. "Problem" algae which can occur in either situation is due to the imbalance of light/nutrients, and the only safe and effective way to deal with problem algae is by tweaking the balance. So-called algae-eating fish have quite specific tastes when it comes to which species of algae they will eat. "Problem" algae is rarely touched by these, or there may be one species that is somewhat effective at the problem algae.

Having said that, it is good to have critters that can deal with common algae. Otocinclus, Bristlenose plecs, Farlowella (Twig Catfish) are all good at this, as are livebearers, and of course snails and shrimp. But all of these have specific requirements with respect to their parameters, numbers, other species, size, etc, so they should never be acquired unless you really want that species and can provide what it needs. Re the temperature, otos and twig cats would be at the upper end of their range, or over it, with rams.