Cycle Crash (Again!)

ShoC

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well just got back home today and 2 of my amano shrimps on their size thinking what could it be, (been in there over a week now)

decided to check my Nitrate first thinking its to high and I've been to lazy, but it's at 0ppm next I check ammonia .50ppm and Nitrie 0ppm :crazy:
last time I did a check on tank params was to long ago, "Yeah I'm not up to scratch but just work to much and so tired after work"

I'm trying to figure out what's caused this my tank has had a few water changes in the last few months not many but allways dechlorinated and my ph was sitting around 7.0ish or there about so nothing to cause a tank not to be happy with its nitrogen cycle, Only thing I can think is I had a PH crash
(I do Co2 inject as I have a planted tank, this must have happened recently as I have had an on going battle with Stahorn algae but now had an explosion of thread algae)

Not sure what to do now apart from shed load of water changes as I have 10 Otos in there :(

I have a nice Large filter Eheim pro largest I could get and plenty of space in the tank, forgot how many gallons

EDIT: I think the question is, what the hells caused it :/ and typically I can only find high rage PH checker and not the one I need
 
Hi ShoC, good to hear from you, I think I remember reading some of your posts when I first arrived at TFF!

It will be interesting to speculate about what caused it and knowing us we may get in to a discussion of that assuming some of the other members come up with some speculations, but before we do I think we should agree on actions and go ahead with them since the delicate little otos are in there depending on us.

A couple things have worked for me in situations like this personally and also since I've been here some years paying attention to hundreds of problem cases I've noticed some trends the seem to reinforce my own experiences (which I hope will be similar to your own instincts and plan of action.) So the substance of it is that its not only the water changes but being sure to clean the substrate as thoroughly as possible. In the case of gravel its being sure to do several deep gravel cleans and the obvious water change going with them. The other thing is to do a more thorough maintenance clean on the Eheim than usual, pouring out the tank water which will contain debris and perhaps rinsing the inside of the box (being careful to keep the media in the old bucket of tank water of course and doing all this right before refilling so the media won't dry out. Also (and this can be difficult) I take this time to do a hose cleaning. For this you must prepare with the proper long brush equipment if you don't have it handy.

Now all of this may actually make your little mini-spike show one more time even worse but it should quickly be ok again and better than before after a day or so( all this assuming you haven't lost bacteria to some other more sinister problem (another really rare thing is when the water authority "shocks" the tap water with too much chloramine, that sort of thing.))

After all that of course I agree you should go pick up a low range pH test kit so you can add that data into your speculations about -why- this happened to you. I agree that this is quite unusual for a well-maintained fully cycled tank. Perhaps you'll think of some other thing that happened that might be good info for the other members.

~~waterdrop~~
 
few water changes-planted tank-c02 injection = ammonia build up due to organic waste build up?

thats my theory on this matter. Water change bi weekly or weekly while injecting c02.
 
Hiya thanks for the replied

I can say for sure it's not a build up of ogranic waste causing the ammonia as I do make sure the keep that out of the way, plus I'd still have some form or Nitrates showing in my water
I'll just wait for tomorrow and report back if it's a Ph crash, turned the Co2 off incase it's dropped the Ph to low so might not get a conclusive answer.


the lack of Nitrates worries me this jas been going on longer than I know, Unless my plants have gobbled up the nitrates :/
 
sounds as though they have, if you're injecting c02 then the nitrates get used quicker. If i was you i'd look at dosing some. Though you have to remember the nitrate test kits aren't 100% accurate.
 
…..my ph was sitting around 7.0ish or there about so nothing to cause a tank not to be happy with its nitrogen cycle, Only thing I can think is I had a PH crash

Your pH is not your problem.

decided to check my Nitrate first thinking its to high and I've been to lazy, but it's at 0ppm….. .

The above is one of them, potentially.

(I do Co2 inject as I have a planted tank, this must have happened recently as I have had an on going battle with Stahorn algae but now had an explosion of thread algae)

Herein lies your main problem. You either have too much light for the amount of CO2 you can deliver, or you should up the amount of CO2 if possible, and try to achieve better distribution through increased flow and/or improved diffusion.

The algae you describe are very symptomatic of when plants are limited by carbon. Your plants are not happy, so their uptake of NH3/4 in the water column is reduced, plus they are leaching NH3/4 across their cell walls too, due to their being unhappy (because they are carbon limited). This will give you your ammonia in the water column.

What your plants are currently doing is to waste a lot of time and energy producing RuBisCO to help them fix carbon more efficiently in a limited environment, and algae is taking advantage of this.

Sort out your carbon problem, and sort out your nitrate deficiency (provided your test kit isn`t lying).

Dave.
 
Thanks for the replies

I do have a drop checker in the water, indicating *green* I know its not the most reeliable but only means I have currently, got spray bar across most of the tank length not disturbing water surface and have 2.2wpg on an over tank luminare

I'm using a reactor+pressure system and using "off the top of my head here" around 5 bubbles a second
I agree I have co2 issues as I do get tufts of black brush algae, should I increase the co2 further then? And start leaving it on at night?
As I seem to have stagnated with my hair grass not propagating but just sustaining in it's current location, I never considered the plants being at fault that's very interesting and will read some

P.s sorry for spellings and weirdness on tablet pc and it sucks
 
agree with WD, the C02 needs to be stable, turning it up and down is only gonna exacerbate bba. Have you moved your dropchecker around the tank to ensure the whole tank it getting a steady amount of c02? have you got plenty of flow in the tank?

I personally wouldn't leave pressurised c02 on at night, it's not worth the risk, other than that theres really no point as the plants won't be using it.
 
That's the thing why is c02 swinging I can't work it out, I turn it off at night don't like to leave it on, the bubbles are at a consistent speed, tank gets good circulation and the drop checker is at the area I'd imagine having least flow, and I can't understand why I'd need to increase it further... It's driving me nuts I know the underlying issue is co2 why it's triggered ammonia I don't understand but ill take dave's word for it


I also get a lot of pearling from my stem plants but I'm just battling Bba and stag horn and now starting to get thread algae..

:crazy: my dosiing is not EI I'm issuing pre mixed bottle gear that contains apparently nothing that can cause algae to trigger
EI confused me I'm fairly simple
 
You've mentioned a couple of times that you feel you've not been up to scratch (on tank maintenance I suspect.) The most common thing (happens to all of us at times) is to have a period of getting lax and not doing water changes. Water changes are a big part of getting plant nutrition dosing to work correctly. Another way to think of Estimative Index (EI) is that the weekly water change causes a "reset" in the tank by pulling the plant nutrient levels -down- before any one of them can get too -high- and then you start fresh for the week, slowly adding back the nutrients in the various amounts that are right for your tank size and plant types and density. And of course its all a balance with light being the gas-peddle that's driving the whole process (sorry, let's leave that out for now, biting off too much to chew.)

~~waterdrop~~
 
I understand the entire process of light/nutrient/Co2


but I dont understand the swings in Co2, Unless its swings due to the Plants intake of nutrients changing due to a poor mantinence and thus results in Co2 uptake changing resulting again in fluctuating Co2 causing BBA...

If thats the case #41#### and I have refused to admit it :p
Very frustrating, I'll look and read abit more into EI and buy some gear and start using that apposed to premix
 
That's the thing why is c02 swinging I can't work it out, I turn it off at night don't like to leave it on, the bubbles are at a consistent speed, tank gets good circulation and the drop checker is at the area I'd imagine having least flow, and I can't understand why I'd need to increase it further... It's driving me nuts I know the underlying issue is co2 why it's triggered ammonia I don't understand but ill take dave's word for it

Thanks for trusting me Shoc, many don`t. :sad:

If you are using pressurised, your CO2 levels almost certainly won`t be swinging. Make sure you bring the CO2 on two hours before the lights come on, and turn it off an hour or two before lights out.

Increase the injection rate slowly over the next day or two, making sure you are around to observe your fauna during these changes. Carry out small changes and wait.

I usually aim for a near yellow dropper before lights on, but also have the filter outlet disturbing the waters surface, but without it actually breaking the surface. This will give high CO2 and high O2. Disturbing the surface means you will have to turn the CO2 up a tad further, but it is cheap.

With a spray bar, you should be getting pretty good distribution, but you may have to consider a power head for improved distribution, but hang slack on that for now. With the improved CO2 situation, think about cutting off infected leaves. BBA hates Excel, so you may want to add the recommended dose of this to remove any stubborn algae. Applying it directly to the algae, with a test kit dropper for example, will kill it instantly, but be aware of killing the plant/leaf too.


WD, the primary purpose of the weekly 50% water change when using EI is to remove organic waste. Plants in a high energy tank will export a lot of carbohydrates, lipids etc.

Dave.
 
Surprisingly the bba is not on any plants but along the sides of tank and thermometer, plants only seems to have stag horn.
I was fighting bga but managed to win that fight, have many troubles since i started this new tank, I'll slip some pictures up tomorrow after work

My major concern is still this ammonia, the test from last night I left on the desk today it showed 0.50ppm
And after to today's water change I did i think around 25litres it still has 0.25ppm so a trip to buy more fert and another change is in order, i know what you said about the plants etc.. But im sure I have stalled or some died off, the level of ammonia is terrible



good news tho, 2x shrimp that were dying I bunged into my daphnia culture tank which is unheated but i was desperate and has lovely yummy algae at the bottom, well after work one is dead :( but the other top of the world, tuff little so and so
 

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