Cruel? Opinons

[Tjimbsoj]

I currently own 2 African Clawed Frogs and have recently purchased a small shoal of Neon Tetras. The 2 frogs have nearly reached full maturity, and have been living happily with the tetras for 2 weeks.

Now straight away you can say that the tetra's are mere bait for the frogs, and yesterday I had a casualty of one tetra winding up within one frogs mouth. Anyway the question really stands is that whether its cruel to keep these species together (seeing as tetra's are arguably dinner for the frogs) or that as this is a isolated incident, its perfectly fine.

ACF's are very clumsy and messy eaters so this might have been accidental...

Is it cruel to keep species together in which one is arguably only food for another?

Opinions please....

 

[Dwarfs]

To most people, no, although when I put fish of a smaller species into a predator tank, they don't last 2 days, let alone a week. I think the frog was hungry, and caught the tetra off guard. Tetras are fast moving, agile fish, and frogs are big slow and clumsy. They only lasted two weeks because the frogs couldn't catch them IMO

 

[Never2Bknown]

dwarfs could be right, considering that "smart reptile/amphibian" is an oxymoron IMO. I don't think it's cruel; I have fed deformed fry to my cichlids a couple of times before. They just get sucked up in one swallow and they're gone. Now if a fish was getting torn apart or something, then I would say that it was cruel. As it is, I don't think you'd be cruel to keep the fish and frogs together. The frog getting the fish may, indeed, have been an accident; like I say, there's no such thing as smart frog (and I would know, I myself have several of them) so it isn't at all impossible. My frogs go after my fingers sometimes.

 

[Tjimbsoj]

It seems to be a trait with ACF to attack anything within their line of sight. I to have had my fingers attempted to be eaten. In their most stupid moments they try and eat my heater...

Amidst their occasional stupidity, they are intelligent animals

 

[FishDan]

I think calling the frogs "syupid" because of "attacking" fingers or heaters is probably not accurate. The frogs are not stupid, they are simply wild animals (maybe raised in tanks, but they are genertically the same as animals you find in nature) and they are reacting as such. Most wild frogs don't find fingers in their habitat. They find food. If it looks like it will fit in it's mouth, the frog will try to eat it. They are not stupid. They are, however, very nearly blind.

It's not cruel to keep the fish with the frogs per se. however, i don't think the fish will last all that long with them. ACFs will try to eat them, and will likely start picking them off, especially at night when the fish are slower/resting and therefor easier to catch.

\Dan

 

[Tjimbsoj]

I appreciate your response, but myself calling these creatures stupid was only a bit of light hearted banter. We as owners regularly reflect our own human characteristics onto animals. I personally find any living creature a miracle, and ACF are very intelligent, as I have experienced and expressed.

So please refrain from patronising myself within your responses

Thankyou for your time though

 

[xXMrBonesXx]

i posted on your other question about the ACF but i'll add a comment here as well, if you keep putting neons or anything in there other then something they cant fit in their mouth its eventually going to disappear so it can be looked at as you dishing out the money for pricey snacks

 

[Tjimbsoj]

dishing out the money for pricey snacks

Neon's are on the Menu tonight!

 

[shmax101]

Well, I wouldn't argue with them being intelligent by design, however, my little dwarf ACF is stupid. Not only is he all but completely blind, he can't find food, at all, the food is over here, he looks over there. The food is up there, he looks down there, it's awful. He was getting so emaciated I had to put him in a bare bottom tank just so he wouldn't starve to death! I'm sure that SOME ACF's are intelligent, but if this one is, I certainly haven't seen a hint of it

 

[Tjimbsoj]

Out of interest is there such thing as a Dwarf African clawed frog or is this simple mis-printing and combination of the ADF and ACF?

 

[Never2Bknown]

Sorry if was "patronizing" you... will try not to let it happen again...

Still, there is much proof that reptiles and amphibians are not very intelligent creatures.

Did you know that you can "hypnotize" frogs and other rept./amphibs. by turning them over on their backs?
This happens because despite the fact that they have very small brain cavities, their brains are even smaller in comparison. Thus, when you turn them upside-down, it gives them a concussion. THis does not hurt them, but nor is it 100% effective or 100% guaranteed to work.
Nevertheless, to put it mildly, they do not really have much in the way of brain power... did you know that a full grown alligator's brain is about the size of a lima bean? My frogs, too, have yet to show any spark of intelligence even though they were originally meant to be wild frogs (they are Green Frogs I found as tadpoles in a feeder fish aquarium). I put 4 crickets in for them and it still takes them around 2 days just to find most of them. In fact, I have actually seen the crickets crawling all over them or even trying to hide underneath them, and the frogs didn't even seem to realize that they were there.
WHen I try feeding them flies, they don't notice them. When I try feeding them worms, they freak out. Because of this, they are on a strictly all-cricket diet since they cannot recognize anything else as food other than my fingers.

 

[Link]

I think it depends how you define the word 'stupid' and 'Intelligent'.
All animals have evolved to do what they have to to survive. If you compare animals with humans, in the majority they are going to be classed as stupid. I say in the majority because after working in a Pet Shop for three years I've seen my fare share of stupid people.
I don't think it's cruel to keep Frogs in an aquarium with fish. I do think it is cruel though to keep fish that you know are going to become food.
It doesn't seem to me that the Frog was lucky because in the wild they eat fish and being lucky wont help them survive.
So yeah, I think it's cruel.

 

[Chasing Puck]

I have a blue gouramie in with my ACF. She's never shown any interest in the fish--but he's much bigger than a neon. I suspect that the frogs will learn the fish are food, and start targetting them. Mine knows the difference betwen me coming to feed her and me coming to clean--she hides when I'm coming to clean, and surfaces eagerly when I have food. She will also let me pet her belly, but no one else. Frogs may not have huge brains, but they are capable of some basic recognition behaviors.

Might not be cruel, but I wouldn't want to put decorative fish in with a predator--just as neons and oscars wouldn't be on my list of compatible tankmates.

 

[Dwarfs]

Ok, reptiles and amphibians aren't too stupid, at least lizards aren't. If my leopard gecko is stupid, why would he ignore a perfectly good mealworm and look at the container they are in? He knows where they come from and he wants them. He also likes to explore when I take him out of his glass prison. He watches the fish, looks around and apears very curious. Intelligence varies. Like fish. Some fish (Ex tetras) aren't as intelligent as other fish (Ex: Cichlids) My cichlids look at me and practically beg for food, whereas my tetras try to eat my fingers. Another example would be when I was feeding my fish brineshrimp. One danio swam into the brineshrimp net, then another. That was either incredibly stupid, or smart. And as they did that my rams patiently waited for the shrimp to come to them. I think some of you think frogs are stupid is because of their tiny bulgy eyes. (probably why they can't see well)