Corys Flicking And Darting

[aaronc]

Hi All!
 
I am having some issues with a few of my panda corys (I have 7)
 
They seem to be occasionally flicking against the substrate and darting around.
 
I can not see any other obvious issues with them, I have checked for white spots, velvet etc.  Externally they are fine as far I can tell, no obvious signs of injury, no fungus and no clamped fins.
 
After feeding time they seem to flick more and often have laboured breath.
 
Water Parameters
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10-20
PH - 6.8
Temp: 27-28c 
 
Now, I know the water temp is high.  There is not a lot we can do about it.  I have lowered photoperiod and we don't have a heater in the tank at the moment.  I know I could try and cool the water down, but this will not last long, and fluctuating temps are just as bad as high temps.
 
In the tank there is also 14 neon tetras.  They are all fine except one, which was removed last week and put into quarantine.  This fish was a little pale in colour and had a swollen body so is being treated with an internal bacteria med (Interpet no9).
 
All tank inhabitants are feeding well.
 
Does anyone have any ideas, or anything else I should look for.

Forgot to say, tank is 125l.
 
I think the Juwel filter is struggling with the planted tank, so this is being upgraded in coming weeks to a large external.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Can you place some pics? My Corys also flick now and then. If no parasites, this must be ammonia to my believe. Panda's are the "lowest" fish in your tank so it could be there is a ammoniaspike at the bottom for a very short period of time. Are there specific moments they flick (after feeding for instance).
 
Panda's indeed like some cooler temps and some flow, so the struggling of filter could be causing a problem as well.

 

[Bristlenose]

Have you considered doubling up your filter with a small internal one?
 
I have Corys they do flick on their sides occasionally.
 
I

 

[aaronc]

Hi All
 
Just an update.
 
2 of the corys now seem to have a bacterial or fungal infection on their faces.  Hard to tell which, so far I have tried Pimafix, Melafix and Esha 200.
 
Currently half way through the course of Melafix and it does seem to be reducing.  I will try and get pictures, but never easy
 
I was just not happy with the filtration of the Juwel internal, didn't seem to keep the water clear at all.  So this weekend I added a JBL Cristal Pro1501 which should help massively.
 
Aaron

 

[DoubleDutch]

Aaron,
 
It could be chilodonella. It's an Ich-like parasite (there are some others alike) that causes these symptoms (please google). That could be a good explanation for the flicking as well. It's a disease that more often is seen in tanks as well, though I am not sure it's normal with these temps !!!!
 
If anti-bacterial en anti-fungal meds don't work this could be the case and can be treated with anti-Ichmeds. Heard great things about Paraguard (I don't know this med cause I am living in Holland).
 
Cheers Aad

 

[TwoTankAmin]

It is more likely columnaris aka mouth fungus. This is not a fungus, it is a bacteria infection and left untreated, will kill the fish. Sorry this if from and American site and the meds are available easily here. I have treated this disease successfully with Maracyn or generic erythromycin. This can be combined with Maracyn II to really zap it as to handle secondary infections as well.

 
Mouth Fungus
   Symptoms: White cottony patches around the mouth.   
 
     Mouth Fungus is so called because it looks like a fungus attack of the mouth. It is actually caused from the bacterium Chondrococcus columnaris. It shows up first as a gray or white line around the lips and later as short tufts sprouting from the mouth like fungus. The toxins produced and the inability to eat will be fatal unless treated at an early stage. This bacteria is often accompanied by a second infection of an Aeromonas bacteria.
     Penicillin at 10,000 units per liter is a very effective treatment. Treat with a second dose in two days. Or use chloromycetin, 10 to 20 mg per liter, with a second dose in two days. Other antibiotics can also be effective. Kanacyn (kanamycin) will treat both bacteria at once. Maracyn (erythromycin) is effective against C. columnaris, and using Maracyn 2 (minocycline) in conjuntion with it will treat the Aeromonas bacteria as well.

from http/animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/information/Diseases.htm#MouthFungus
 
Here the same site's info on chilodonella

 
Chilodonella
    Symptoms: Dulling of the colors due to excessive slime, fraying of the fins, weakness, gill damage 

     This disease causes a blue white cloudiness on the skin and attacks the gills. Later the skin may be broken down and the gills destroyed. The fish may behave like they have irritations, by glancing off aquarium decor, they may have clamped fins and difficulty breathing.
     Acriflavine (trypaflavine) may be used at 1% solution (5 ml per liter). As acriflavine can sterilize fish, the water should be gradually changed after a cure has been effected. It also helps to raise the temperature to about 80° F.

 
Here is more in depth info from a UK site on chilodonella http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/chilodonella.htm

 

[DoubleDutch]

You could be right, but flicking isn't a symptom of Columnaris I thought. In that case heavy meds are needed indeed. Esha 2000 isn't !!!
What are you feeding them ???

 

[aaronc]

The white patch is not on their mouth and they don't seem to have any issues feeding at all.
 
I feed them a very varied diet, flakes, bloodworm, algae wafers, daphnia, and occasionally blanched cucumber.
 
Can anyone recommend an Antibiotic that I can get over the counter in the UK without visiting a vet?
 
aaron
I will try and get a picture when the tank lights come on in an hour

 

[aaronc]

Hey! Not managed to get a picture of the Corys yet
 
However I have spotted something similar on one of the Rainbows today
 

 
Should I complete the melafix (another 3 doses) or stick some carbon in and try something else
 
Aaron

 

[aaronc]

 

 

[DoubleDutch]

Looks bacterial to me, but still in doubt about if it's Columnaris.

 

[aaronc]

Any ideas guys? Looks like this has spread to another Rainbow now.
 
Desperate to nip it in the bud with an appropriate treatment.  Real shame you can't buy Maracyn in the UK
 
Today is the last day for the Melafix 7 day dose, so will be doing a big water change
 
Thanks

 

[nicky1200]

It looks like white spot.

 

[Sophie]

It looks like white spot.

 
White spot is tiny white spots about the size of a grain of sand, all over the fishes body, depending on what stage it is at it could start with a few little spots and then increase to the point there are spots than fish!
 
If it's bacterial, Waterlife Myxazin would be my first port of call.
From my experience, Melafix is really only good for aiding in repairing fin damage and preventing infection, not curing it when it's already happened..
http/www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/myxazin.htm
 
My next thoughts, with the flicking behaviour but no external symptoms (until now) would've been gill flukes or something similar. Internal parasites cause all sorts of irritating behaviours that you and I cannot see with said naked eye!
From that I would be treating with Waterlife Sterazin - http/www.waterlife.co.uk/waterlife/sterazin.htm
 
As you can tell.. I've had great success with Waterlife products but it could work out to be useless for you.
I use Waterlife products at work as well, and Myxazin is used almost as an everyday thing for preventing infections as well as treating things from fungal to popeye etc.
Waterlife Protozin has also been extremely effective for me against white spot - but this also depends on the strain of parasite..

 

[aaronc]

Thanks for the feedback Sophie.
 
I will get hold of those two products and give them a whirl.
 
I am starting to think Melafix is not at all up to the job here.
 
Aaron