Continuing Ammonia Problems :-(

[muelleh]

30 gal established tank w/two 30 gal filters

2 angel fish
8 tetras
5 corys
2 siamese algae eaters
snails

Went out of town and came back to an ammonia problem. Changed water several times and got ammonia back to 0 but it inches back up overnight (still less that .25). I do a water change and it drops back to 0, only to creep back up. Nitrite 0, nitrate 5.

This may be a silly question, but is it possible that I am testing too often? Is there a time, say after feeding (I feed the corys as night) that ammonia will go up, but will be drop back to 0 within a reasonable amount of time? Or should ammonia always be at 0 irrespective of when the water is tested?

Thanks!

 

[RadaR]

with two 30 gal filters

What do you mean?

Or should ammonia always be at 0 irrespective of when the water is tested?

Yes, a well cycled tank should always register "0" on a test kit irrespective of the time.

Using dechlor aren't you?

Might be feeding too much?

Any decaying matter on/in the gravel or in the filter?

 

[muelleh]

with two 30 gal filters

What do you mean?

I used to have goldfish so had two filters (instead of just one) for extra filtration. Have just kept them running.

Or should ammonia always be at 0 irrespective of when the water is tested?

Yes, a well cycled tank should always register "0" on a test kit irrespective of the time.

Using dechlor aren't you?

Might be feeding too much?

Any decaying matter on/in the gravel or in the filter?

I use StressCoat and StressZyme every time I change the water (we are on a well so chlorine is not a problem anyway). I have obviously done something to upset the balance, so have cut back on feeding amounts and very thoroughly vacuumed the gravel two days ago. Today when I changed the water I vacuumed again and hardly got anything. I guess I just have to keep changing the water...?

 

[RadaR]

I guess I just have to keep changing the water...?

You got it.
Cleaning/changing filters too much can lose significant levels of nitrifying bacteria. Have you ruled this out?

 

[muelleh]

I guess I just have to keep changing the water...?

You got it.
Cleaning/changing filters too much can lose significant levels of nitrifying bacteria. Have you ruled this out?

It is a possibility. I had to leave town on an emergency and leave the tank in someone elses' hands, so cleaned the filter material pretty well because I expected that he would over-feed and not take care of the tank like I do. That could have precipitated this whole thing.

Both filter pads were filthy and covered with a brown slime, so I rinsed them out in discarded tank water until I got most of the gunk out. Perhaps I should have only cleaned one that well, and left the other alone? I also replaced both carbon filters at the same time (I usually alternate). I was pretty aggressive because I didn't know how long I was going to be gone.

I am curious to see how long it is going to take to get things back to "normal".

 

[waterdrop]

I agree, sounds like the aggressive level of filter cleaning w/double change of carbon sections. It should come back with some time. Perhaps your water changes (continuing the good gravel cleaning you are doing) could be larger to give you a little more room between time you have to change (hopefully always prior to it getting past the 0.25ppm mark.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[muelleh]

Thanks! I tried that it it does make a difference. My LSF recommended AmQuel+ (said they use it rather than Prime) and I am sorely tempted to use it. He told me to dose once and then wait about 3 days and test again. Any point in trying this? According to what I have read, AmQuel+ converts ammonia into a non-toxic form that will still feed the bacteria.

 

[RadaR]

Ok advice, but personally I'd just do water changes because this completely gets rid of the ammonia instead of converting it to ammonium. The bacteria will be fine.

 

[muelleh]

OK...now this may be a really stupid question, but I have read that bacteria will die when exposed to air. It takes me about 1/2 hour to change the water (so the filters are exposed to air at least 15 minutes) so I am worried that with daily water changes I am killing off bacteria. Is this a reasonable concern?

 

[RadaR]

30mins? Doing the old bucket and siphon method eh? Investing in a water pump such as this will save you a lot of time.
If a filter stops working, then on average nitrifying bacteria will start to die off after 1hour or so because they're not getting oxygen that would overwise be delivered to them by the water. So 30mins for a water change should be fine as long as you don't dry out the filter (very much doubt it in 30mins!). If you're still concerned, why not keep the two filters in a separate bucket of tank water to keep them wet?

 

[PDSimon]

Yeah as RadaR said, stick them in a bucket of tank water no need to keep them on either

 

[muelleh]

30mins? Doing the old bucket and siphon method eh? Investing in a water pump such as this will save you a lot of time.
If a filter stops working, then on average nitrifying bacteria will start to die off after 1hour or so because they're not getting oxygen that would overwise be delivered to them by the water. So 30mins for a water change should be fine as long as you don't dry out the filter (very much doubt it in 30mins!). If you're still concerned, why not keep the two filters in a separate bucket of tank water to keep them wet?

 

[muelleh]

30mins? Doing the old bucket and siphon method eh? Investing in a water pump such as this will save you a lot of time.
If a filter stops working, then on average nitrifying bacteria will start to die off after 1hour or so because they're not getting oxygen that would overwise be delivered to them by the water. So 30mins for a water change should be fine as long as you don't dry out the filter (very much doubt it in 30mins!). If you're still concerned, why not keep the two filters in a separate bucket of tank water to keep them wet?

 

[muelleh]

Once a week water changing hasn't been a problem, but this daily business is killing me! I did "google" the life expectancy of nitrifying bacteria and found a wide range of answers so I'll go with RadaR's estimation of about an hour, as that is the most conservative one. I'll put the filter media in tank water just to ease my mind.

Thanks for all your help! I keep hoping someone will say "Use Prime or AmQuel+ and your ammonia problem will be immediately solved"...

 

[OldMan47]

I clean my filters by removing them from the tank and rinsing the media and just stacking it on a clean towel until I get it all clean and can return it to the filter. The media stays moist but is definitely exposed to air. On the other hand, I do not allow any of my media to become dry, that would kill off the bacteria. With 3 baskets of media, some of it is just somewhat moist when all is put back together but it means nothing and the filter starts working great as soon as all is put back in service. I water change my 125 gallon tank using 5 gallon buckets but only shut off the filter as it starts to lose suction. That way the filter keeps running most of the time. If it is time to clean that filter, I use the last bucket of water as my cleaning medium. Lugging 30 to 40 gallons of water down the stairs to the fish room takes a while but the bacteria always survive and thrive.
In your case you said you replaced carbon. Although the carbon is not intended to be a biological medium, it does part of the work. If you changed a large volume of carbon at once, you are probably in a mini-cycle. I would expect to see such an excursion finished in about a week unless you tossed an awful lot of your biological media as carbon.