Cockatoo Sexing

[chris_1127]

I bought a male/female pair of double red cockatoos some time ago now. Unfortunately the male (who was unmistakably a male) died but I still have what I presume to be the female. However after looking at a number of pics online I am wondering if it may actually be an under-developed male - it was far smaller than the definite male when i got the pair and definitely less colourful. Its still very small however it is now showing orange colouration and patterns on the top 1/4 of the caudal fin and some on the dorsal too - no sign of elongated dorsal rays or pectoral fins though. It does seem to have quite a yellow tinge to the rest of the body, if this is indicative in any way. Do females sometimes show some signs of this colouration on the caudal fin as well as males? I will try to get some decent pics but only have a camera phone at the moment so decent shots are difficult to get.

 

[Katchan]

Hi, females can sometimes be heavily coloured, more so than some males I've seen, the biggest giveaway though is female apistos (in general) have black marking's on their pelvic fins, males dont, see below for example

Andrew

 

[chris_1127]

thats brilliant, thanks for the quick reply. I will check that out tonight

 

[a.d.wood]

Hi there,

As well as the distinctive black edges to the ventral fins, with Apisto cacatuoides, the males will have extensions to the leading edge of the dorsal fin (probably the first 5 to 6 rays) and extensions top and bottom of the caudal fin.

As far as colour, with the aquarium bred strains of both Apisto agassizii and Apisto cacatuoides the females fins can also show a similar degree of the colouration exhibited by the males.

Andrew

 

[Katchan]

the extended dorsal finage while as a general rule is good but as tank bred females have been developed in colour so have some males lost the extended dorsal, this has been noted by at least 2 reputable breeders/keepers of apistos in the US -David Soares and Mike Wise

Andrew

 

[a.d.wood]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for that, learned something new today Do you know if this is published anywhere, wouldn't mind reading a bit more about the potential changes in fin structure with domestic strains.

Andrew

 

[chris_1127]

Thanks for the help people, think can safely say its definitely female. Will pick her up a male friend at the weekend. the pic doesnt show it too well but there is a bit of colouration on the dorsal fin too, plus the bit on the caudal fin that you can just make out which was casting doubt before

 

[Katchan]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for that, learned something new today Do you know if this is published anywhere, wouldn't mind reading a bit more about the potential changes in fin structure with domestic strains.

Andrew

Published anywhere? not that I know of, almost all my info has been picked up from 2 sources, but I can add another must have to those 2.
1 - Apistogramma.com forums, excellent place if your needing tough questions answered.
2 - American Dwarf Cichlids 1, Dwarf Cichlids A Handbook for their Identification, Care, and Breeding
only downfall to this book is its age, theirfore missing many newer species, still excellent in what it does cover and can be obtained very easily and cheaply from amazon.com

3 - The book I would like but dont have is "Baensch/Mergus Cichlid Atlas, Vol. 1" by Uwe Romer, an excellent book but the 2nd edition is hopefully out this year so I'm holding off till then

Hope this helps

Andrew

 

[a.d.wood]

Hi Andrew,

Plugged into those sources already.

I like your optimism with Romer's Atlas part 2, I'm still waiting to hear if they plan to release both German and English language editions at the same time or if it's the german language version first with english to follow....

1 other book I would recommend for ID, and adopting the 'A' id system (just like C for the cories and L for the plecs) is the new Datz South American Dwarf Cichlid book (published 11/2005):

In German > Datz book
Views of the book > Datz images

And a UK book shop that sells this book worldwide > Steven Simpson books > Datz

Andrew

 

[banderbe]

I bought a male/female pair of double red cockatoos some time ago now. Unfortunately the male (who was unmistakably a male) died but I still have what I presume to be the female. However after looking at a number of pics online I am wondering if it may actually be an under-developed male - it was far smaller than the definite male when i got the pair and definitely less colourful. Its still very small however it is now showing orange colouration and patterns on the top 1/4 of the caudal fin and some on the dorsal too - no sign of elongated dorsal rays or pectoral fins though. It does seem to have quite a yellow tinge to the rest of the body, if this is indicative in any way. Do females sometimes show some signs of this colouration on the caudal fin as well as males? I will try to get some decent pics but only have a camera phone at the moment so decent shots are difficult to get.

For starters the female is about half the size of the male.

The male also has the big fleshy lips, and tends to be more reclusive.

Sexing cacatuoides is as easy as telling the difference between a VW bug and a mack Truck.

Hi, females can sometimes be heavily coloured, more so than some males I've seen, the biggest giveaway though is female apistos (in general) have black marking's on their pelvic fins, males dont, see below for example

Andrew

He's asking about cacatuoides.

Thanks for the help people, think can safely say its definitely female. Will pick her up a male friend at the weekend. the pic doesnt show it too well but there is a bit of colouration on the dorsal fin too, plus the bit on the caudal fin that you can just make out which was casting doubt before

Yes, that's a female.

Pick up a male cacatuoides and you will see what I mean, the differences are obvious even to a five year old child.

 

[Katchan]

For starters the female is about half the size of the male.

The male also has the big fleshy lips, and tends to be more reclusive.

Sexing cacatuoides is as easy as telling the difference between a VW bug and a mack Truck.

He's asking about cacatuoides.

Yes, that's a female.

Pick up a male cacatuoides and you will see what I mean, the differences are obvious even to a five year old child.

OMFG! thanks for picking up all my mistakes banderbe, can you please sex this fish? and why?
In the fist image the fish in the forground is a female, but the one in the back ground is what I'm asking, it's th enetted one in the other 3 shots

Andrew


Ok I hope you took all these things into account when sexing since your such an expert

1- males with shortened dorsals are becoming much more common

2- colourful females are on the rise, these also tend to be larger than normal females, up to the size of a male

3- while not particulary visable in these shots male have longer ventral fin streamers than females, in females these can become much long with age!

4- Grey bodies usually mean male, yellow body female

THEIR IS ONLY ONE DEFINITIVE WAY OF SEXING A CACA FEMALE AND THAT IS THE FLACK COLOURING ON THEIR FINNAGE
Any of the other above ways are generalizations which can no longer be held true.

BTW the above fish is a female despite being as colourful as many males, as big as most males (that I've had), she kept the grey body even when breeding (and yes I had her breed a few times) instead of the atypical cobalt yellow apistogramma (not just cacatiode) female gain when breeding. She also had the longer streamers that are more common in males. All but one of the regular posters at apistogramma.com guessed this fish as male, David Soares is the only one who was able to correctley sex her (from his guess I added her to a tank with a definite male and they bred less than 3 hours later)

Please if your going to just come in and be rude dont bother comming in at all and BTW I know the differnce between most apisto's much better than you.Tthe original image I posted was just the first pic i found showing a strong black ventral fin - it was just a quick example

 

[nicola]

Hi, when you buy your fish be careful that you get the right male. As there are double reds, triple red's, orange sunburst and so on. You definately have a female cacutudies triple red (i know i cant spell), but sometimes the dealers also get mixed up as they all so so simular. Just check out google!!!
However one word of warning...theyll breed with all the kinds of apisto.

 

[chris_1127]

cheers for that, i picked up a male at the weekend that was labelled up as a triple red, but have to be honest that i wouldnt know one from another so will post pics up when i can get a decent one.

 

[Katchan]

However one word of warning...theyll breed with all the kinds of apisto.

No they wont!!!!!

Damn will people get their facts straight before posting round here

It is in fact VERY difficult to hybridize apistos, then the results are generally far from good, low birth rates, high deformity and early deaths are the most common issues

It is easy however to breed different version of apistogramma cactuiode to gether as they are all just defferent colour morphs of the one species, please note the one colour varient may infact cary the genes for other varients as well eg a double red pair may give you mostley double red but triple reds and oranges as well...

Also please do tell how you can destinguish what colour varient chris's female is?

It is next to impossible to do this with a normal coloured female, a highly coloured female like the one I posted is the exception to the rule (but starting to become more common)

Andrew