Cloudy Water In New Tank And Some General Questions

[BigJim]

I started a new 20 gallon tank (my first in about 20 years) four days ago and I am cycling with three zebra danios and two leopard danios. The fish have been in the tank two days and I have three small live plants as well. The ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings are all 0 still, and my pH is 7.6. Over the last 24 hours the water has started to get cloudy. I have done two 20% water changes so far and it helps somewhat. I have heard advice anywhere from 50% daily water changes to 10% every two days on different sites and forums around the web. I have the following questions:

Is cloudy water normal?

Should I even be changing the water before I get any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate readings?

If so, how much water should I change and how frequently?

How many days should it take before I see ammonia readings?

Lastly, would the fish selection below overload my tank ( I know not to buy them before the tank is cycled and I plan to add them one species at a time?

3 zebra danios
3 leopard danios
6 pygmy cories
1 honey gourami
6 black neon tetras (I will not add these if they will overload the tank)

This forum is awesome and I appreciate any advice.

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, cloudy water is perfectly normal, its usually a bacterial bloom (its the heterotrophic bacteria (the ones that eat organic matter) that you're seeing, not the autotrophic ones that we want in our filters) and will die down of its own accord and is harmless.

There's nothing wrong with changing a little water daily even prior to seeing any traces of ammonia and nitrite. It will smooth the tendency to spike those things and it will get you used to the logistics of how you can do the changes most efficiently. People sometimes worry that they are robbing the bacteria of their food but in fact the bacteria can get plenty of ammonia from the traces that are below what our kits can detect.

Once you -do- begin to see traces of ammonia and/or nitrite(NO2) then you need to begin judging whether you have the best pattern of percentage and frequency. There are so many variables that you kind of have to just go by feeling. Luckily a 20g is not too small and your traces will not as quickly spike to 0.25ppm, which is the max value you want to allow. The goal of your detective work is to figure out what combination of percentage of water changed and what frequecy of changing will result in the neither the ammonia or nitrite going above 0.25ppm before you can be home again to change water.

In your case you have about the right fishload per water volume, so you should be in a true fish-in cycle, rather than the typical mistaken situation we see most beginners in where they didn't understand about cycling in the first place. It may take quite a while before you see very significant traces of the two poisons. In fact, sometimes fish-in cycling can be frustrating partly because the "feedback" about where you are in the process is much harder to read than fishless cycling.

The end comes after about a month, when you see that you can go two days without changing any water and without seeing any traces in the 4 tests of those 2 days. When that happens then you know you are probably cycled and you just need to finish out a week or so as a type of "qualifying week" to be sure it just doesn't show any more traces. At that point you can consider the first of a number of small stocking additions (2 or 3 fish at a time with a couple weeks between is usually what I like to do.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BigJim]

Thanks for the advice! I'll stick with the current plan and I'll probably be back once things start happening. Any thoughts on the fish I would like to add?

 

[waterdrop]

Choices and shoaling numbers are all fine. I think I got to full stocking strictly on length just prior to the last line with the 6 black neons, but so many of these are small bodied fish that it might be ok to add the neons if you could maintain good maintenance. We can see what others say, people count different ways...

 

[BigJim]

That was my logic too. I figured the length of the fish might get to 30 inches but the body mass would be less than 20 inches of fuller bodied fish. I will be taking it slow so I should have a better idea if my logic is correct before I get the tetras. I am considering dwarf rasboras instead of the tetras if I can find them but that is 6-8 weeks away at least.

 

[BigJim]

I have an update and a couple quick questions. All five danios are still doing well and chasing each other all over the tank. Ammonia first showed up 12 days ago but I have kept it at or below 0.25 PPM with 25% to 50% daily water changes. The nitrite reading on the API Master Test Kit has been showing a slight hint of lavender for 3 days and I have a slight hint of orange in the nitrate test. I have heard many people say that the nitrite spike and ammonia drop seem to happen overnight. Is it normal for it to show very little change over 3 days? Should I be doing smaller water changes or does that not matter? Also, should nitrates be registering at all on the test at this point? I have 3 small plants and a piece of bog wood so I am thinking they are causing the nitrate reading. Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[BigJim]

I forgot to ask my main question. One of my zebra danios was really big in the belly and now looks smaller. I noticed some stringy things floating around in the tank that look like small sausage link casings. I actually noticed them after vacuuming the gravel so it is probably irrelevant, but I was wondering if she may have laid eggs. Is there anything I should do at this point. Again, any help is appreciated.

Jim

 

[waterdrop]

Danios are egg scatterers and the tiny eggs would have fallen to the bottom - I wouldn't worry about it, you don't want fry to deal with at this time anyway. It sounds like the feedback from your Fish-In Cycle is just confirming that you have found a good water-changing pattern and are doing the right thing. You're just hoping it -doesn't- do little spikes on you, so be thankful it hasn't lol. You just want to see it go on and on tracing like that and you getting the water out. It will usually take around a month and you'll only know the end when it just seems like you can't get any traces anymore.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BigJim]

I'm getting closer. My nitrite started to get up to .25 ppm last Wednesday and the ammonia decreased to 0. One of the danios was very pale with slightly red gills but he appears to be fine now. I actually had to do 2 water changes per day to keep the nitrate to .25 ppm or less. Thank God I only have a 20 gallon tank. Last night I measured 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite and very low nitrate. This morning that measurement was the same. Hopefully they stay stable for a week and I can add a few more fish.

 

[Skins]

Looking good but i would be inclined to leave a few weeks before adding more fish.

 

[Timmy_Bee]

i would say after your qualifying week you could add maybe 3-4 fish? i wouldn't shove all 6 cory's in next because this would be a strain on your newly set up filter.
Personally i would (once the filter is sound) up your stocking by no more than 50 - 60% each two week. So add up to 3 one week (total 8), then in two weeks time add up to 4 more (total 12), then in two weeks add up to 6 more (total 18) and i think thats your lot.
The above is being conservative - in theory you can double your stocking at least evey week and your bacteria will catch up, but i wouldn't advise that!

 

[BigJim]

i would say after your qualifying week you could add maybe 3-4 fish? i wouldn't shove all 6 cory's in next because this would be a strain on your newly set up filter.
Personally i would (once the filter is sound) up your stocking by no more than 50 - 60% each two week. So add up to 3 one week (total 8), then in two weeks time add up to 4 more (total 12), then in two weeks add up to 6 more (total 18) and i think thats your lot.
The above is being conservative - in theory you can double your stocking at least evey week and your bacteria will catch up, but i wouldn't advise that!

Thanks! I'll do that. I think I'm going to stay away from the honey gourami at this point. I think my danios would stress it out because they literally chase each other around the tank all day, every day. Plus I would be reaching the max at that point anyway.

 

[OldMan47]

You are doing fine BigJim. The low values of nitrites indicate that you are using enough water changes. By trying to keep the nitrites in line you will be controlling both nitrates and ammonia levels quite well. As you have indicated, the maintenance of nitrites will take more physical work than maintaining ammonia levels. Each 1 ppm of ammonia produces 2.7 ppm of nitrites so that sort of explains the added work involved.