Apistogramma borelli - Save Fry

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Yeronimo

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Hi All,

a few days ago my Apistogramma borelli had their first fry and I was very happy about it. Unfortunately there were only a few that I could see and they didn't survive long after starting free swimming with their mom. Now I am searching for different reasons for this and I hope some of you can help me:

1. My borellis are beginners and not good enough in defending their fry. Will they learn and be better in the future?

2. The fry were eaten by my Endler Guppys or Amano shrimps?!

3. I have a Walstad-tank with gravel (2-4 mm). I read that fry will die if using gravel because of more ammonia / nitrates or big holes where they fall into. Is this true?

Thanks for your help!

Best
Gerd
 
Hi Gerd and welcome to the forum :)

Number 3 is utter rubbish. I used to have gravel in all my Apistogramma tanks and never had an issue with them eating fry.

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Endlers and guppies should not have eaten the fry unless they were really hungry. Even then the Endlers live in the top half of the tank and the parents should keep them away.

The shrimp would take the baby fish at night.

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Number 1 is partially right. If the fish are a new pair they will still be learning how to be good parents. This is really common with cichlids bred in fish farms. The eggs are removed from the parents and the fry reared up without the parents. Because the eggs are gone, the parents usually lay another batch of eggs a week later. The fish farm can get 3-6 more batches of eggs from the same fish in the time it would take the parent fish to rear up one batch of young to an age where they can look after themselves.

With new cichlid pairs, they usually eat the first few batches of eggs. Then they look after the eggs but eat the fry because they wriggle and look yummy. Eventually the parents look after the eggs and fry and you have a nice responsible pr of fish that take care of their babies. The parents would have learnt brood care if they were left with their parents but because they are removed as eggs, they don't learn and have to work things out.
 
Thank you very much, Colin. I am very happy about your answers.
That you use gravel in your Apisto tanks calms me down. Then I don't have to worry about dying fry that get ill of dirty gravel or something.

Same for the guppys, but what should I do with the amano shrimps? Is it better to take them out of the tank?

My pair is from a private breeder, but I don't know if he let the fry learn from their parents or splitted them early.
What I could see: The female defended the few fry very offensive and brought them back, when they were swimming away. The male didn't seem to be interested in them.
So you think they will be better parents over time?

Do they need a light at night?

What do you think is the main reason for this failed first try?

Thank you again!
Gerd
 
If the fish were from a private breeder they should have been raised by their parents.

Whenever you breed fish it is preferable to have the breeding fish in the tank and nothing else. This includes shrimp, snails or other fish because they will all try to eat the eggs or fry.

They don't normally need a light on at night but some pairs look after the young better if there is a low wattage night light on in the room. But most pairs look after their young perfectly fine without a night light.

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LIGHTS
Stress from tank lights coming on when the room is dark can be an issue. Fish don't have eyelids and don't tolerate going from complete dark to bright light (or vice versa) instantly.

In the morning open the curtains or turn the room light on at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the tank light on. This will reduce the stress on the fish and they won't go from a dark tank to a bright tank instantly.

At night turn the room light on and then turn the tank light off. Wait at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the room light out. This allows the fish to settle down for the night instead of going from a brightly lit tank to complete darkness instantly.

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With cichlids the males normally defend the territory and the females look after the eggs and young. Most males will show some brood care and help the female move the babies around but some don't.

Some males will eat the eggs or babies and some females do too. However, this is usually caused by a young inexperience pair. If the pr continue to eat the eggs and young after about 6 batches, then separate the prs and try them with new partners.

The most likely reason the first batch failed is because it was their first batch. The fact they didn't eat the eggs is a good sign, so just let them try again. They usually get it right after a few attempts.

Make sure you feed the fish 3-5 times a day for a couple of weeks before breeding and while they have eggs and young. Fish that are full and not hungry are less likely to eat the eggs or young and more likely to look after them.
Make sure you do lots of water changes and gravel cleans if feeding them more often.
 
Thank you again, Colin. Your hints are really helpful.
I think I will observe the next trys and will decide afterwards if I put out the guppys. I am sure the amanos will leave the tank in the next days :).

What I have read from you, I think you are against the possibility of taking out some fry at a very early stage to breed them seperately?!
Thought about this, but I don't know if this is good for the future behaviour of the fry and how big a breeding tank has to be for about 6-7 fry.

Best
Gerd
 
You only remove eggs or fry if they are an endangered species and the parents are eating the fry every time they produce a batch. Give them a few more tries before removing any eggs or young. If you interfere with the parents looking after the eggs or young, you can cause them to eat the eggs and young. It's best just to leave them to try again and they usually work it out after 3 or 4 batches.
 
Hi there,

a short update and a question:

I got about 12 frys about two weeks ago. There were a stable amount about 1 week. Then the guppys found out that the frys are delicious. So I took the guppys out. 5 frys were left and now, a few days later, only 2-3 are in the tank. If I am not wrong I saw the male eat a fry, but I don't know if this is true. I don't think that they will survive.

Nevertheless this attempt was much better than the first one.

Do Borellis need "enemy" fish in their tank? If yes, which one can I choose that will not be dangerous for the frys? For example Boraras?

Best,
Gerd
 

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