Apisto. Eremnopyge

[tomsteer]

Hello,

Some of you may have noticed my post a few days ago, I received these two through the post on Wednesday and within hours of being in the tank they where flirting.

This morning I noticed that the female was defending her cave, chasing off anyone who got too close (including 3.5"ish discus when she's about an inch)

The female with her nose down, seems to be their aggressive stance

Another of the female

A bad one of the male but look in the cave!!

Oh and a little video of these two flirting



They’re in a 55g bare bottom community at the mo with four 3 -3.5" red turq discus, seven cardinals and 2 baby bristlenoses

Thanks, Tom

 

[snowyangel]

Congrats on the spawn. Hope all goes well for the fry.

 

[jayjay]

love the fish.

were you planning on breeding them?? and what are you going to do with the fry if they survive?

 

[tomsteer]

thanks for the comments, i wasnt planning on breeding them straight away and i doubt too many if any of the fry will survive in the community.

i'll be moving them to a 10g later into a breeding setup,

cheers, Tom

 

[Katchan]

I dont want to be insulting (and it probably sounds like I am ) but i think you got ripped off as they are not (as far as I can tell from the pic's) A. Eremnopyge, Many apisto are sold either accidently or on purpose as another type.

This is an Ok imasge of a A. Eremnopyge, it can be darn near impossible to ID apistos by females, and its far from a good pic of the male (no offense I could be wrong and its just a poor image I'm going from

From "practical fishkeeping"

The fish, which is most similar to A. bitaeniata, was found in the Rio Pintuyacu, a river in the Rio Itaya drainge in Peru, and is unique among apistos in having a dark blotch on the ventral side of the caudal peduncle.

This blotch is present in both males and females, and occurs with a narrow longitudinal stripe running the length of the fish. However, unlike many species, there is no mid-lateral blotch.

Like A. bitaeniata, male eremnopyge also have elongated dorsal and caudal fin rays, and extended dorsal lappets.

http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/...em.php?news=377

also this artical

http/www2.nrm.se/ve/pisces/acara/ap_eremn.shtml

Hope this helps

KC

PS with some better shots of the male I might be able to ID it

 

[Katchan]

Just took a quick look at your other post, from what I can tell they are probably A. bitaeniata (young) or similar, they are missing the hallmark dark blotch on the lower caudual peduncle of the Eremnopyge

KC

 

[a.d.wood]

Now then,

In defence of Tomsteer > these are Apisto eremnopyge.

Couple of things to look for:

1. They're not Apisto bitaeniata > no double stripe on the flank, they're is too much blue flashing on the cheeks of the male.

2. The distinct black blotch on the bottom of the caudle peduncle will not always be visible

3. These are young fish (it's not uncommon for apisto's to breed at a very young age), the finnage and colouration will develop as the fish matures in size.

4. I've seen the image quoted in the later post of the male Apisto eremnopyge in many places, if you ever find 1 that impressive let me know please....

I know where the fish originated from (not just the breeder, also the importer). I have some of the original batch as well breeding juveniles just like those pictured.

Adult male Apisto bitaeniata:

Adult male Apisto eremnopyge:

Andrew

 

[Katchan]

@ a.d.wood
You seem to be missing a few points
1) All the pictures, not some, not most, but all the pictures of the the "Eremnopyge" are missing the dark blotch on the ventral side of the caudal peduncle, while a marking is present this is by no means large enough or in the right place to be correct, and no I dont buy it that it would be missing in all the photos because of "immature fish" or "stressed"

2) I did not state they were bitaeniata, I stated bitaeniata (young) OR SIMILAR. As it is I would say similar as bitaeniata's caudal peduncle is inline with its stripe, the one's in the provided images are slightly off.

3) you state

I know where the fish originated from (not just the breeder, also the importer). I have some of the original batch as well breeding juveniles just like those pictured.

but tomsteer stated in his original post on the subject that

i purchased a wild caught breeding pair for £8 + £7.50 postage, which i dont think is bad at all."

linked here
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=139576&hl=
Please get your story straight how can a "wild caught pair" be bred by a breeder?

KC

 

[a.d.wood]

Hi KC,

To clarify my points then:

Whether they are wild or juvenile, these are Apisto eremnopyge.

Looking at the photo's again you can see the red and blue flashing in the male in the last of tomsteer's pictures), in the Apisto bitaeniata group, the only species (descibed or undescibed) that shows this mix of red and blue flashing that I am aware of is Apisto eremnopyge.

My adults (and juveniles) rarely show the black patch in the lower caudle peduncle (as witnessed by my photo above). I would assume that this is the same with the fish that tomsteer now has.

3) you state

I know where the fish originated from (not just the breeder, also the importer). I have some of the original batch as well breeding juveniles just like those pictured.

but tomsteer stated in his original post on the subject that

i purchased a wild caught breeding pair for £8 + £7.50 postage, which i dont think is bad at all."

But surely the juveniles and adults will develop the same colourations???, I had assumed these were juveniles (whether correct or incorrect) when I compared them with my adult male that came from the same import.

Part of the problem here is that I have seen these fish in person and have seen all the various markings, moods etc which are not showing clearly in the images we have both supplied, however I'm sure that if you drop these images into a specialist forum (say apistogramma.com) then you will get the same response as mine, they are Apistogramma eremnopyge.

I think there is a chance in the future we will see some more Apisto eremnopyge variants appearing in the hobby (certainly based on my last South American import )

Andrew

 

[tomsteer]

Well thanks for the replies guys, sorry I haven’t checked this post in a while, I described these fish as Apsito Eremnopyge as this is what they were sold to me as, however I would stand by that after looking at various information and pics.

I’ve taken a couple more for you to have a look at.

The male

And again

And then the female (now with free swimming fry)

They are currently around 1 inch total length so the male is about 10/12mm from fully grown and the females got growing to do.

The fry are feeding on bbs at the mo, in a 20g with a couple of l066 king tiger plecs at the mo who haven’t got near the cave.

they're at 78/79F at the moment, and I’m going to be doing 2 25% water changes a week with aged water, does that sound ok? Am I missing something?

Well thanks again for looking, Tom

 

[a.d.wood]

Hi Tom,

Husbandry and feeding regime sound good, if you can introduce frozen cyclops for the fry (as well as the bbs) that should help as well. I use 75 litre breeding tanks and do about a 25% water change per week, but with 2 plecs in your tank I would stick with the 2 changes/week.

You're male has a fair bit of growing to do yet, my wild male (pictured above) is currently sitting around 40 to 45mm SL (nose to base of tail) or about 60mm TL (total length) if you prefer measurements that way.

Andrew

 

[tomsteer]

cheers for all the info,

Tom