Another snail discussion...

Bruce Leyland-Jones

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When did snails stop producing waste?
When did snails eat more algae than they produced waste?

When did snails stop carrying diseases and internal parasites?

I appreciate that the Snail PR Machine has done an outstanding job over the last decade or so, but still...

I ask because of a P@H discussion, because of the look of abject horror when I asked about the lack of snail killer* and because of some staff who should know better, (not necessarily working at P@H, but young enough to view the year 2000 as The Olden Days).
Am I wrong for wanting to manage all of my tank's life forms?

*I'm currently stocking up on my Medicine Cabinet and I used snail killer in the olden times to...er...kill snails, which were a pest and to treat any plants for unwanted snaily passengers.
 
When did snails stop producing waste?
They didn't, snails like nerites create a lot of poop.

When did snails eat more algae than they produced waste?
They don't. Many snails are very good at eating algae but it does come out at the other end.


Some of the smaller snails do eat fish poop, and yes it does come out of the other end but in smaller particles which means the bacteria which break down fish poop (and snail poop) can do so faster as there is a bigger surface area to volume ratio with lots of small particles compared to one big one.


When did snails stop carrying diseases and internal parasites?
Probably the same as with fish - commercially bread snails have fewer parasites than wild caught snails. (Though livebearer fish inparticular seem to have a lot of parasites when imported from the far east). Back decades ago snails would have been wild caught; nowadays the demand for them means they will be commercially bred.




Anything that kills snails will also kill shrimps, if ever you want shrimps. And I wouldn't be happy putting anything that kills snails in the same tank as fish.
To be honest, the fewer chemicals we add to a tank the better. All I add is dechlorinator and plant fertiliser. One of the most common fish ailments is whitespot (ich) and the best cure for that is heat.
 
Following up on Essjay's post (with which I concur)...One of the most dangerous aspects of this hobby when it comes to the health of the fish in our tanks involves additives and chemicals to do this or that. Don't. Water continually enters the fish via osmosis through every cell, and much of what is in the water can go along for the ride. Ask yourself what possible benefit would a chemical that kills snails, or algae, be in the fishes' bloodstream, affecting the functioning of internal organs? A rhetorical question, but the point is, never use these if fish are present.
 
To be honest, the fewer chemicals we add to a tank the better. All I add is dechlorinator and plant fertiliser. One of the most common fish ailments is whitespot (ich) and the best cure for that is heat.

Many of the brands which sell chemical treatments for fish target new and inexperienced fishkeepers, who are attracted by the ease of use these chemicals provide in treating fish. They are unaware that there are natural treatments for fish diseases and instead to the pet store and spend 10 quid on medication.

That's not to say these medications don't work, but the companies making them are fully aware of the fact that newer fishkeepers are a bit gullible. A perfect example of this is the filter cartridge boxes which say you must change them on a monthly basis. And it's not limited to the fish industry either. I know a brand in potting soil says that you must change the soil your plant is in every six months when this is not truly necessary.
 
Looking at how you all assumed I was planning on adding the chemicals to the tank, I never was.
I was, however, planning on treating any new plants before I added them to a tank.
(I think it's worth noting that I was in a minority of aquarists, back in the day, who treated plants as they would fish, with full quarantining before adding to a tank that was, by design, very pro-plant...and this involved doing whatever was necessary to remove snails).
 
Looking at how you all assumed I was planning on adding the chemicals to the tank, I never was.
I was, however, planning on treating any new plants before I added them to a tank.
(I think it's worth noting that I was in a minority of aquarists, back in the day, who treated plants as they would fish, with full quarantining before adding to a tank that was, by design, very pro-plant...and this involved doing whatever was necessary to remove snails).

When an issue is raised, many of us will respond in what may seem a "negative to the OP" mode, but that is not usually the case (unless specifically stated of course). Other members read these threads, and may spot mention of products that kill snails, or algae, etc, and if nothing is said to the contrary, assume this is OK. So we point it out to be certain.

I have never treated plants, they either go into the display tank immediately, or sometimes into the quarantine tank for new fish acquisitions if I am not sure where I intend to plant them. My QT runs permanently as a planted tank, so it is always ready for new fish and the fish are immediately placed in an established tank which significantly lessens the shock and chance of disease. As for the small harmless snails that hitchhike on plants, I have always welcomed these helpmates because of the incredible job they do. But to the plants, since the 1990's my local fish stores have maintained fish-less tanks for the plants so that reduces much of the risk. I also recall advice from I believe it was Rhonda Wilson (who used to have a monthly column on plants in TFH) that it was risky to somehow treat plants because anything actually strong enough to kill algae or snails would harm the plant, and possibly kill it. All factors worth noting. :fish:
 
Looking at how you all assumed I was planning on adding the chemicals to the tank, I never was.
It was this that made us think you were

I'm currently stocking up on my Medicine Cabinet

Most of us assumed you meant a fish medicine cabinet that you were stocking with every fish med known to the hobby ;)

(Or at least every fish med available to buy in the UK......)
 
When an issue is raised, many of us will respond in what may seem a "negative to the OP" mode, but that is not usually the case (unless specifically stated of course). Other members read these threads, and may spot mention of products that kill snails, or algae, etc, and if nothing is said to the contrary, assume this is OK. So we point it out to be certain.

That is understood and appreciated. ;)

...anythging actually strong enough to kill algae or snails would harm the plant, and possibly kill it. All factors worth noting. :fish:
Whilst I appreciate that and herbicide (masquerading as an 'algaecide') would directly affect all plantlife exposed to it, I never experienced snail killers, (which were/are usually copper-based) actually damaging plants.
 
I also remain unconvinced about snails ignoring aquarium plants for their luncheon. Granted, they prefer algae and decomposing plant matter, but I was also aware that should any plant leaf get damaged, then the damaged area became a magnet for any resident snails, which then enlarged the damaged area.

I'm genuinely intrigued by the love expressed for all of the snails in a tank, rather than them being seen as a species that needs managing.
 
The pointed snail that ate my (expensive) water lily in my patio tub is vey unwelcome, especially as he-she now has lots of friends to ensure said lily will never thrive :mad:
However the pest pond snails and mini ramshorns in my tanks are welcome, and my nerites are awesome!
 
I'm genuinely intrigued by the love expressed for all of the snails in a tank, rather than them being seen as a species that needs managing.

The "managing" is first the number of fish, and second the amount they are fed. This determines the level of snails--talking here the small "pest" as some rather mistakenly call them, like bladder, pond, Malaysian Livebearing and ramshorn. These snails eat organics, including all the fish excrement, dead plant matter, etc. nSo if they "explode," it means the aquarist does not have the biological system balanced, and either has too many fish, or is feeding them way too much. The snails (these species) will only reproduce to the level for which they have food. So that is why many of us consider them beneficial. They add nothing to the organic load that is not already there, simply because they are feeding and thus existing on the already-present organic load.

They also break these organics down faster so the bacteria (or plants) can more easily and readily deal with them. And they can get everywhere in the tank, places the aquarist cannot.
 

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