Another Newbie Again

[KittyKat]

think of what would have happened in a 5 or 10 gallon (which is why I recommend you keep all of your apple snails in the 29).

I hear you there. Can I keep the apple snails in the 5 gal without fish or is it too small a tank for them? If so, how many could I keep in a 5 gal and would it be balanced enough w/o fish? The goal being to keep snails separate from fish as you said this chaos I would like to avoid again.

That would be just as bad as keeping them in a 5 gal with fish, no? If one snail dies, the ammonia can kill the other snails too. I think the best option is to keep the apple snails in the 29 gallon (with fish) and count them every day, checking that they're alive. Once the filter matures more (due to increased bio-load from the fry growing up), you shouldn't have as much of a problem if one of the snails dies anyway as the filter should be able to cope with more ammonia anyway and be more capable of compensating for dead snails.

I checked the tank tonight, nitrite still high but the pH is down to 6.0 again. I also wanted to mention that the bio wheel (HOTB) is not spinning as it should. Last few days I've had to take it out and just put it back in and then it works fine for a while. This could mess things up too couldn't it? usually it spins just slow and will stop for a minute or two.. but I have two other tanks with the HOTB wheels and they work fine. Right now it's spinning like a top, I was working on it earlier. I'm keeping an eye on it. If it slows down again to occasional stopping do I need to replace this unit? What do you think about this pH business? Would you put any fish in there if the pH remains low like this?

What is the KH of your tap water? It is worth figuring out what causes the pH to drop before adding fish. The process of nitrification (ammonia being converted to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate) acidifies the water. If your KH is low, the pH is dropping because the bacteria are processing the nitrite (and whatever ammonia may be in the water). From a not-changing-much point of view, you can try increasing surface agitation and changing your light on hours (5-6h on, 4h off, 5h on, off for the night: this should increase the amount of photosynthesis) to keep the pH up. The lighting period change is only worth trying if you have a decent amount of plants. The later theory would also work if you added more plants instead of changing the photoperiod. I am not sure how effective these two are in practice, but they're easy to try.

A more permanent solution would be to add calcium-based rocks, like reef bones, and/or filter though crushed coral/shells. Be careful with crushed coral: it or dust on it may irritate the fishs' gills. If you have access to mussel shells (leftovers from dinner, for example), they're definitely worth a try and I have not heard of these causing same problems as crushed coral can.

Yes, the problem with the biowheel can end up killing all the bacteria. To be on the safe side, add sponges to the container of water and let them be colonised by bacteria. If you end up getting a few filter, I can highly recommend an external or internal so that you avoid having to worry about the wheel getting stuck. If you get a new filter, you should run it in parallel with the old one for at least 6 weeks before removing the old one.

 

[catbirdie]

>>>>>What is the KH of your tap water? It is worth figuring out what causes the pH to drop before adding fish. The process of nitrification (ammonia being converted to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate) acidifies the water

****** I don't know what KH means ...... the pH of my water is 7.6. The other tanks are OK. They haven't gone acidic.

>>>>>Yes, the problem with the biowheel can end up killing all the bacteria. To be on the safe side, add sponges to the container of water and let them be colonised by bacteria. If you end up getting a few filter, I can highly recommend an external or internal so that you avoid having to worry about the wheel getting stuck. If you get a new filter, you should run it in parallel with the old one for at least 6 weeks before removing the old one.

*****I remember you telling me that before about running an old filter with a new one or adding a sponge. I did add a sponge to that tank a couple of weeks ago. I purchased an internal filter today and cleaned the tank out again as the pH was so acidic. I just felt I needed to start off from scratch as if it was a new tank...BUT with a new filter unit. I didn't feel it was safe that the wheel would hang up on the other one. If you have an internal and external you want to recommend to me, please do, because I just picked this one up as my expenses are running low so it's not a top of the line unit no doubt, it was inexpensive. In the morning about 10 hours from me writing this, I'll be testing the H2O. Will be interesting to see over the next couple of days what happens with the pH. There are quite a few fry waiting for a larger home

 

[KittyKat]

>>>>>What is the KH of your tap water? It is worth figuring out what causes the pH to drop before adding fish. The process of nitrification (ammonia being converted to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate) acidifies the water

****** I don't know what KH means ...... the pH of my water is 7.6. The other tanks are OK. They haven't gone acidic.

KH is carbonate hardness: http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonate_hardness

It acts as a buffer, which kinda means that it shows if your pH is going to be the same or if it will change.

>>>>>Yes, the problem with the biowheel can end up killing all the bacteria. To be on the safe side, add sponges to the container of water and let them be colonised by bacteria. If you end up getting a few filter, I can highly recommend an external or internal so that you avoid having to worry about the wheel getting stuck. If you get a new filter, you should run it in parallel with the old one for at least 6 weeks before removing the old one.

*****I remember you telling me that before about running an old filter with a new one or adding a sponge. I did add a sponge to that tank a couple of weeks ago. I purchased an internal filter today and cleaned the tank out again as the pH was so acidic. I just felt I needed to start off from scratch as if it was a new tank...BUT with a new filter unit. I didn't feel it was safe that the wheel would hang up on the other one. If you have an internal and external you want to recommend to me, please do, because I just picked this one up as my expenses are running low so it's not a top of the line unit no doubt, it was inexpensive. In the morning about 10 hours from me writing this, I'll be testing the H2O. Will be interesting to see over the next couple of days what happens with the pH. There are quite a few fry waiting for a larger home

I don't know what is available in the US, but I heard that Fluval + range is reliable for internal (I have filters from the original Fluval internal range) and I know that Eheim Classic range (for example a 2213 or a 2215) is reliable for external. I don't know how fry-safe the Fluval is, but for the Eheim, you can put a sponge or stocking over the inlet to prevent the fry getting sucked up.

If it's a new filter you're having problems with, you might be able to take it back to the shop to get an exchange (make sure you keep the used wheel and sponges, and that they remain moist at all times.

 

[catbirdie]

>>>KH is carbonate hardness: http/en.wikipedia....bonate_hardness

It acts as a buffer, which kinda means that it shows if your pH is going to be the same or if it will change

*****OK.. I don't have a test for KH here, I have to order it from the internet so will take a couple of days. In the meantime, I did another water change on the 29 gal, so for 2 days now the pH has stayed at 7.6... keeping fingers crossed.


>>>>>Yes, the problem with the biowheel can end up killing all the bacteria. To be on the safe side, add sponges to the container of water and let them be colonised by bacteria. If you end up getting a few filter, I can highly recommend an external or internal so that you avoid having to worry about the wheel getting stuck. If you get a new filter, you should run it in parallel with the old one for at least 6 weeks before removing the old one.

*****I have the old filter in there with the new one. As of a few minutes ago, the readings are ammonia .50, nitrites high end and the pH 7.6. no fish or snails in the tank yet. I hope the pH holds.

>>>>I don't know what is available in the US, but I heard that Fluval + range is reliable for internal (I have filters from the original Fluval internal range) and I know that Eheim Classic range (for example a 2213 or a 2215) is reliable for external. I don't know how fry-safe the Fluval is, but for the Eheim, you can put a sponge or stocking over the inlet to prevent the fry getting sucked up.

OK thanks for that info

I have another question (of course). Since my tap water quality is so poor, after cleaning a 10 gal with glow fish, one of the glowfish seems to be having trouble breathing, A lot of water was changed. Is there anything I can do to help out the fish? I just can't get to the store today.. I will try to pick up some new plants tomorrow. Friends on mine told me to put a bubbler in there, do they really help with oxygen? Should I add any dissolved aquarium salt? Anything else I can do?

 

[KittyKat]

>>>KH is carbonate hardness: http/en.wikipedia....bonate_hardness

It acts as a buffer, which kinda means that it shows if your pH is going to be the same or if it will change

*****OK.. I don't have a test for KH here, I have to order it from the internet so will take a couple of days. In the meantime, I did another water change on the 29 gal, so for 2 days now the pH has stayed at 7.6... keeping fingers crossed.

Normally this is not one we use, but I think given your pH crashes, it would be really useful.

>>>>>Yes, the problem with the biowheel can end up killing all the bacteria. To be on the safe side, add sponges to the container of water and let them be colonised by bacteria. If you end up getting a few filter, I can highly recommend an external or internal so that you avoid having to worry about the wheel getting stuck. If you get a new filter, you should run it in parallel with the old one for at least 6 weeks before removing the old one.

*****I have the old filter in there with the new one. As of a few minutes ago, the readings are ammonia .50, nitrites high end and the pH 7.6. no fish or snails in the tank yet. I hope the pH holds.

>>>>I don't know what is available in the US, but I heard that Fluval + range is reliable for internal (I have filters from the original Fluval internal range) and I know that Eheim Classic range (for example a 2213 or a 2215) is reliable for external. I don't know how fry-safe the Fluval is, but for the Eheim, you can put a sponge or stocking over the inlet to prevent the fry getting sucked up.

OK thanks for that info

I have another question (of course). Since my tap water quality is so poor, after cleaning a 10 gal with glow fish, one of the glowfish seems to be having trouble breathing, A lot of water was changed. Is there anything I can do to help out the fish? I just can't get to the store today.. I will try to pick up some new plants tomorrow. Friends on mine told me to put a bubbler in there, do they really help with oxygen? Should I add any dissolved aquarium salt? Anything else I can do?

An airstone can improve things, or you can try to move the filter in such a way that surface disturbance increases. The only problem with airstones is that the airpumps are loud unless you get a decent one and suspend it mid-air on some string. It certainly wouldn't hurt, but a lot of the time it makes little difference. Airstones do not help as much with oxygen as a well aimed filter outlet, in my opinion. You are right that your water probably caused the problem.

I recommend against salt: you should refrain from using it on a regular basis, use it to treat problems, as with other medications or the benefits may wear off after a while. Also, many freshwater fish can be harmed by salt in the long term, although some appear to be fine with it for their whole lives and a lot of fish actually can live in fresh and brackish water.

If you have the space, it may be worth investing in a spare filter and a large bin for water, so you can prepare the water for water changes in advance and have a filter running which will process any ammonia and nitrite in it before it goes into the tank. Even if the filter is only able to reduce it by a little bit, that would still be better than nothing.

 

[catbirdie]

>>>>An airstone can improve things, or you can try to move the filter in such a way that surface disturbance increases. The only problem with airstones is that the airpumps are loud unless you get a decent one and suspend it mid-air on some string. It certainly wouldn't hurt, but a lot of the time it makes little difference. Airstones do not help as much with oxygen as a well aimed filter outlet, in my opinion. You are right that your water probably caused the problem.

*****I did pick up one and have it hooked up. I don't know that it's making a difference. I turned it off, observed the fish for a while. Hard to say.

>>>>I recommend against salt: you should refrain from using it on a regular basis, use it to treat problems, as with other medications or the benefits may wear off after a while. Also, many freshwater fish can be harmed by salt in the long term, although some appear to be fine with it for their whole lives and a lot of fish actually can live in fresh and brackish water.

***OK thanks for clearing that up for me.

>>>>If you have the space, it may be worth investing in a spare filter and a large bin for water, so you can prepare the water for water changes in advance and have a filter running which will process any ammonia and nitrite in it before it goes into the tank. Even if the filter is only able to reduce it by a little bit, that would still be better than nothing.

****It's funny I was thinking along those lines... to help minimize the stress to the fish. Might do that. Believe it or not I'm still trying to make that 29 gal tank habitable. As of today the pH is still 7.5 yippee, the ammonia, 0 ppm, but the nitrite is still too high. So put some Prime in there and will see what it reads later tonight and in the morning. I would really like to get that tank workable for the fish and those two snails.. I had no idea my water was going to be such an issue.

 

[KittyKat]

>>>>An airstone can improve things, or you can try to move the filter in such a way that surface disturbance increases. The only problem with airstones is that the airpumps are loud unless you get a decent one and suspend it mid-air on some string. It certainly wouldn't hurt, but a lot of the time it makes little difference. Airstones do not help as much with oxygen as a well aimed filter outlet, in my opinion. You are right that your water probably caused the problem.

*****I did pick up one and have it hooked up. I don't know that it's making a difference. I turned it off, observed the fish for a while. Hard to say.

Since you got one, may as well leave it on

>>>>If you have the space, it may be worth investing in a spare filter and a large bin for water, so you can prepare the water for water changes in advance and have a filter running which will process any ammonia and nitrite in it before it goes into the tank. Even if the filter is only able to reduce it by a little bit, that would still be better than nothing.

****It's funny I was thinking along those lines... to help minimize the stress to the fish. Might do that. Believe it or not I'm still trying to make that 29 gal tank habitable. As of today the pH is still 7.5 yippee, the ammonia, 0 ppm, but the nitrite is still too high. So put some Prime in there and will see what it reads later tonight and in the morning. I would really like to get that tank workable for the fish and those two snails.. I had no idea my water was going to be such an issue.

How high is the nitrite? What does Prime do to it? Do you live in the countryside or an area with low or no pollution? Can you collect rainwater?

 

[catbirdie]

>>>>How high is the nitrite? What does Prime do to it? Do you live in the countryside or an area with low or no pollution? Can you collect rainwater?

***The nitrite was at least 5.0 on the chart. So the nitrites are still quite high. The Prime says it detoxifies nitrite and nitrates. I live in a city. We don't have a lot of industrial pollution but I don't think rain water would be too great.. tho, you've got me curious enough to test it, so I will do that and let you know the readings. The pH dropped as of tonight on that tank to very yellow in the test tube so it's very acidic 6.0 or lower again I sent away for a liquid test kid for the KH, I only have the test strips which show that as 0-40. I'm going to go crazy from that tank. I don't know why the 29 gal won't maintain itself so I can add fish again. All the others did.

Moving on to the 10 gal....I need to add water to the tank with the glow fish. Is it ok to use bottled spring water? When I mentioned that to the gal in the pet store, she said no, and then had to run off and take a call, so I never found out why she said so. The other question is if not bottled spring water for some of the time, can I add balanced water from an established tank? I have the 40 gal very full up and could spare some water from there for what I need for the 10 gal.

 

[KittyKat]

>>>>How high is the nitrite? What does Prime do to it? Do you live in the countryside or an area with low or no pollution? Can you collect rainwater?

***The nitrite was at least 5.0 on the chart. So the nitrites are still quite high. The Prime says it detoxifies nitrite and nitrates. I live in a city. We don't have a lot of industrial pollution but I don't think rain water would be too great.. tho, you've got me curious enough to test it, so I will do that and let you know the readings. The pH dropped as of tonight on that tank to very yellow in the test tube so it's very acidic 6.0 or lower again I sent away for a liquid test kid for the KH, I only have the test strips which show that as 0-40. I'm going to go crazy from that tank. I don't know why the 29 gal won't maintain itself so I can add fish again. All the others did.

Do you have access to shells? Like mussel or oyster shells? Or crushed sea shells? If you do, clean them well, then add them to the filter, it will help buffer the water. You might also want to consider adding reef bones as part of the décor (and feed the snails cuttlefish, to maintain their shells).

Rainwater is soft, so would only help with the nitrite problem, and apparently not even that if you store the water.

I was asking about Prime because there is nothing to detoxify the water for currently in the 29 gallon, is there? Also, it may be worth finding out exactly what it does to the nitrite, or at least ask Seachem if whatever the product is, can it still be used by the filter bacteria?

Moving on to the 10 gal....I need to add water to the tank with the glow fish. Is it ok to use bottled spring water? When I mentioned that to the gal in the pet store, she said no, and then had to run off and take a call, so I never found out why she said so. The other question is if not bottled spring water for some of the time, can I add balanced water from an established tank? I have the 40 gal very full up and could spare some water from there for what I need for the 10 gal.

Should be fine: RO or deionised water is no good because it doesn't contain anything, but if you look on the breakdown for the bottled water, you should see that it normally has potassium, calcium, nitrates, etc, but should not have ammonia or nitrite.

 

[catbirdie]

Hi KittyKat... I had a lot to do before writing you back so here's the update:


>>>Do you have access to shells? Like mussel or oyster shells? Or crushed sea shells? If you do, clean them well, then add them to the filter, it will help buffer the water. You might also want to consider adding reef bones as part of the décor (and feed the snails cuttlefish, to maintain their shells).

****** I do live near the beach and can collect crushed shells mostly. Would I then put them in a small filter bag and add them to the filter?

>>>>Should be fine: RO or deionised water is no good because it doesn't contain anything, but if you look on the breakdown for the bottled water, you should see that it normally has potassium, calcium, nitrates, etc, but should not have ammonia or nitrite.


****Here's what's been going on with the 29 gal. After numerous unsuccessful tries to get the nitrite level down, I finally added 3/4 of bottled spring water which according to the safety data sheet has minerals. Now at last.. the water in that tank tests well. 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites.and the pH of 7.5. I added an internal filter to that tank as the HOTB filter wheel would hang up. So at the moment and for the last three weeks I have both filters running in there.

**** Do I remove the HOTB filter at some point, as the internal should be sufficient. I'd like to add some fish soon as I have a lot of the platy fry to put in there..finally have the readings stable, but I wasn't sure if I could remove the HOTB filter.

***Also, you have mentioned to me about keeping the old filters you're not using anymore but need to keep moist otherwise they become useless. How do you do that other than keeping them in a tank?

***You also asked me about the KH. I finally got the liquid test kit in the mail. My tap water takes 5 drops to turn the water from blue to yellow which according to their chart is 89.5.

 

[KittyKat]

Do you have access to shells? Like mussel or oyster shells? Or crushed sea shells? If you do, clean them well, then add them to the filter, it will help buffer the water. You might also want to consider adding reef bones as part of the décor (and feed the snails cuttlefish, to maintain their shells).

I do live near the beach and can collect crushed shells mostly. Would I then put them in a small filter bag and add them to the filter?

As long as the beach is not polluted, that's perfect! Yes, add them to the filter. Alternatively, you can sprinkle them over the substrate, but you'd need to use more in that case. Normally, one would not be using crushed shells in a freshwater aquarium, but because your pH keeps dropping, it will be useful in this case.

Should be fine: RO or deionised water is no good because it doesn't contain anything, but if you look on the breakdown for the bottled water, you should see that it normally has potassium, calcium, nitrates, etc, but should not have ammonia or nitrite.

Here's what's been going on with the 29 gal. After numerous unsuccessful tries to get the nitrite level down, I finally added 3/4 of bottled spring water which according to the safety data sheet has minerals. Now at last.. the water in that tank tests well. 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrites.and the pH of 7.5. I added an internal filter to that tank as the HOTB filter wheel would hang up. So at the moment and for the last three weeks I have both filters running in there.

That sounds good, you should be adding a source of ammonia to feed the filter or the bacteria will die back. Household ammonia (ingredients have to be only ammonia and water) is great. Otherwise, toss a shrimp in, the sort which are used for cooking and eating: it will release ammonia as it rots. Fish are also an option, although it is difficult to tell how many your filter is currently capable of supporting. I think starting with a few fry should be safe, as long as you feed *very* little.

Do I remove the HOTB filter at some point, as the internal should be sufficient. I'd like to add some fish soon as I have a lot of the platy fry to put in there..finally have the readings stable, but I wasn't sure if I could remove the HOTB filter.

You should not remove the HOTB filter for at least another 4 weeks ideally. If the filters pose a threat to the fry, put stockings over the inlets (this will affect filter performance).

Also, you have mentioned to me about keeping the old filters you're not using anymore but need to keep moist otherwise they become useless. How do you do that other than keeping them in a tank?

That is pretty much impossible with a bio-wheel filter. With sponge filters, you can place an extra sponge inside the main filter. It is just as important for there to be a source of ammonia and oxygen for the filter media as for it to remain moist. Keeping a spare sponge inside another filter does the trick

You also asked me about the KH. I finally got the liquid test kit in the mail. My tap water takes 5 drops to turn the water from blue to yellow which according to their chart is 89.5.

Great, because this actually explains a lot. KH is what prevents your pH from changing and yours is moderately low. If you want a comparison, mine is around 9-11 ° (which is about 160 - 196 ppm) and during a fish-less cycle, mine was dropping around 1 ° / 18 ppm per day when processing 2 ppm of ammonia. In very crude terms, nitrification (conversion of ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate) produces H[sup]+[/sup] ions, which basically means that KH is used up and once KH is used up, the pH crashes.
So you're probably wondering why pH doesn't crash in every single tank. A number of reasons:

• Plants photosynthesising results in increase in pH
• Denitrification uses up H+ ions -> leads to increases in pH
• As CO2 leaves the water due to surface movement, pH increases

…and why doesn't it crash in plant-free tanks? Well, most of the time it does for the average community tank, which causes problems, but sometimes it doesn't because the water can be buffered up using carbonates (shells and reef bones are a source of these and are often used in Rift Lake set-ups, where a pH crash is very likely to happen due to the heavy fish stocking). Of course, the other thing to remember is that some people have very hard water, so it is possible to see the KH as high as 20+ ° (360 ppm or over).

The ideal solution is to make sure your tank is well balanced between fish numbers, plants and décor. On the other hand, in the short term, intervention like adding extra shells to the filter is a LOT safer than a fluctuating pH.

 

[catbirdie]

>>>>>That sounds good, you should be adding a source of ammonia to feed the filter or the bacteria will die back. Household ammonia (ingredients have to be only ammonia and water) is great. Otherwise, toss a shrimp in, the sort which are used for cooking and eating: it will release ammonia as it rots. Fish are also an option, although it is difficult to tell how many your filter is currently capable of supporting. I think starting with a few fry should be safe, as long as you feed *very* little.

****Hi KIttyKat...

I have the fry in there now for 4 days.. so far so good and my readings are all within the normal range. Great info on tossing the shrimp in there.. I only have cooked shrimp in the freezer.. so did you mean a raw one or is a cooked one ok?

>>>>>You should not remove the HOTB filter for at least another 4 weeks ideally. If the filters pose a threat to the fry, put stockings over the inlets (this will affect filter performance).

****Another great piece of info about the stocking.. once again thank you!

>>>>that is pretty much impossible with a bio-wheel filter. With sponge filters, you can place an extra sponge inside the main filter. It is just as important for there to be a source of ammonia and oxygen for the filter media as for it to remain moist. Keeping a spare sponge inside another filter does the trick

****I do keep an extra sponge in each tank in the filter, since a while ago I got that idea from something you said. I just was a little confused that there was some other way of keeping the filters moist and I sure couldn't think of it, that's why I asked.

>>>>>Great, because this actually explains a lot. KH is what prevents your pH from changing and yours is moderately low. If you want a comparison, mine is around 9-11 ° (which is about 160 - 196 ppm) and during a fish-less cycle, mine was dropping around 1 ° / 18 ppm per day when processing 2 ppm of ammonia. In very crude terms, nitrification (conversion of ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate) produces H[sup]+[/sup] ions, which basically means that KH is used up and once KH is used up, the pH crashes.
So you're probably wondering why pH doesn't crash in every single tank. A number of reasons:

• Plants photosynthesising results in increase in pH
• Denitrification uses up H+ ions -> leads to increases in pH
• As CO2 leaves the water due to surface movement, pH increases

…and why doesn't it crash in plant-free tanks? Well, most of the time it does for the average community tank, which causes problems, but sometimes it doesn't because the water can be buffered up using carbonates (shells and reef bones are a source of these and are often used in Rift Lake set-ups, where a pH crash is very likely to happen due to the heavy fish stocking). Of course, the other thing to remember is that some people have very hard water, so it is possible to see the KH as high as 20+ ° (360 ppm or over).

The ideal solution is to make sure your tank is well balanced between fish numbers, plants and décor. On the other hand, in the short term, intervention like adding extra shells to the filter is a LOT safer than a fluctuating pH.

*******Thank you big time for that education and half!!!!! I like the idea of putting some crushed shells in the filter which I will do. Right now the pH is OK, so we're safe.. I still haven't gotten over to the beach.. but it will happen!!

*******I'm so excited to have that 29 gal with fish in it after all this time. You really have to watch the tanks like a hawk and keep them clean... in my case also being careful when I vacuum not to remove too much water because of the condition of mine having a high level of nitrites even with the water filter.

I was planning on investing in a reverse osmosis filter. Now I don't think I will. I've been drinking bottled spring water ever since this all came up and I did the testing. But I'd like to put adequate filtration in the kitchen for the drinking water so I don't have to purchase bottled and also that would be ok for the fish since I would be filling the tank from the kitchen when I need to add H2O to their tanks. Boy has this been a domino effect of education.

Otherwise all fishies doing well and accounted for

 

[KittyKat]

That sounds good, you should be adding a source of ammonia to feed the filter or the bacteria will die back. Household ammonia (ingredients have to be only ammonia and water) is great. Otherwise, toss a shrimp in, the sort which are used for cooking and eating: it will release ammonia as it rots. Fish are also an option, although it is difficult to tell how many your filter is currently capable of supporting. I think starting with a few fry should be safe, as long as you feed *very* little.

I have the fry in there now for 4 days.. so far so good and my readings are all within the normal range. Great info on tossing the shrimp in there.. I only have cooked shrimp in the freezer.. so did you mean a raw one or is a cooked one ok?

If the fry are in there, that's good enough

If the tank is completely empty, then cooked or raw shrimp is fine (but household ammonia is better)

I'm so excited to have that 29 gal with fish in it after all this time. You really have to watch the tanks like a hawk and keep them clean... in my case also being careful when I vacuum not to remove too much water because of the condition of mine having a high level of nitrites even with the water filter.

The maintenance decreases as the tank becomes more established I still recommend that you investigate going seriously planted as that will reduce the need for vaccuming and you could attempt a no/low water change set up in the long term, but you need to learn a lot more about fishkeeping first I recommend you read Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad (I can't remember if I recommended it already) as it has some interesting concepts and explains a lot. I'm not suggesting you set up your tanks like she does (I have never tried it that way), but the book will help you understand why certain things happen the way they do.

I was planning on investing in a reverse osmosis filter. Now I don't think I will. I've been drinking bottled spring water ever since this all came up and I did the testing. But I'd like to put adequate filtration in the kitchen for the drinking water so I don't have to purchase bottled and also that would be ok for the fish since I would be filling the tank from the kitchen when I need to add H2O to their tanks. Boy has this been a domino effect of education.

It would depends on what exactly the kitchen filter will do, if it will only remove nitrite, it would be great! Unfortunately, most remove carbonates (KH) and metal ions (permanent hardness) as well, which would be bad for the fish (and I can't see how it wouldn't for you as well). On the other hand, do talk to your water board, do find out what their readings are, do ask why your tap water sucks so much, do find out what the legal limits are, do point out to the board if they're exceeding them for anything.

 

[catbirdie]

Hi KittyKat...

>>>>>>If the tank is completely empty, then cooked or raw shrimp is fine (but household ammonia is better)

*******okie dokie... sounds good!

>>>>>The maintenance decreases as the tank becomes more established I still recommend that you investigate going seriously planted as that will reduce the need for vaccuming and you could attempt a no/low water change set up in the long term, but you need to learn a lot more about fishkeeping first I recommend you read Ecology of the Planted Aquarium by Diana Walstad (I can't remember if I recommended it already) as it has some interesting concepts and explains a lot. I'm not suggesting you set up your tanks like she does (I have never tried it that way), but the book will help you understand why certain things happen the way they do.

******Great, thank you, I'll order that book because this has all been a completely new experience for me as you know, and I do need to be educated as to what's going on.

>>>>>>It would depends on what exactly the kitchen filter will do, if it will only remove nitrite, it would be great! Unfortunately, most remove carbonates (KH) and metal ions (permanent hardness) as well, which would be bad for the fish (and I can't see how it wouldn't for you as well). On the other hand, do talk to your water board, do find out what their readings are, do ask why your tap water sucks so much, do find out what the legal limits are, do point out to the board if they're exceeding them for anything.

******I did some reading up a few months ago, I guess when I first took the tap readings. I have to go back and find those links but I believe they are exceeding the levels established by the FDA. I'll let you know when I have a chance to go do that research again.

*******I had a surprise yesterday. I went to the 29 gal tank and bingo the pH has dropped to yellow in testing .. the day before it was fine. The water was super acidic in a matter of 24 hours as you had talked about that happening before. So that got me moving and I ran to the beach and gathered the crushed shells, washed them off good and put them in the filter as you had told me to do. I also did a 50% water change.. Only that tank drops like that. I'm curious to see how the shells work in there. I'll keep a keen on on it of course...and I'll get the book for sure!! You went though a detailed explanation of this pH situation previously, so hoping the shells do the trick.

***About 8 hours after the water change and and I put the shells in the tank, I tested the KH also. Took 8 drops, to turn yellow (143.20) the ammonia was 0, the nitrites were .25 ppm. This morning, the nitries still .25 ppm, the KH took 8 drops again to turn yellow, and the ammonia is 0 ppm.