Angelfish stressed - urgent action

[safcraft]

Hello,

I am in need of some advice..i tried a lot of stuff , none seem to work.
I have 4 Angelfish in apparent stress, 2 Zebra Scalare and 2 Manacapuru Scalare.
The 2 smaller Zebra are better , and the 2 older Manacapuru are much more stressed. Still young angelfish, not adults.

I bought the Zebras about 1 month ago...other that heavy breathing they eat fine and behave almost normal.
I bought the 2 Manacapuru about 3 weeks ago and they arrived well but after 1 week they were eating bad , heavy breathing, twitches and hiding behaviour, fading and most recently Fin Rot in one of them.

While in main tank ( 400L with guppys, Tetras and Corys / Ancistrus ) they were submitted to eSHA 2000 treatment. Seem to help with fin rot but then it got worse again. I decided to move them to a hospital tank ( 50L , small decoration).
While there i tried eSHA 2000 again, no sucess. I tried eSHA Gastrobac, no success.
Yesterday i tried 5grams of salt per litre, no luck until now.

They mostly keep at the bottom of the tank, with heavy breathing. Very stressed behaviour, twitches and fade colors. They go against objects in the tank, and keep clamped fins.
The Manacapuru only eat Bloodworms, other food they reject.

I tried to upload some videos of them:

So regarding water parameters, i used tests from API and JBL to make sure every thing is OK.
Amonia 0
Nitirite 0
Nitrate 10
Ph 7.5 ( my tap water has this value, no change possible)
Temp 25
O2 levels are +6 mg/l. ( but i placed an air stone nonetheless)

Hospital tank has a Oase 350 (yes i know over filter but its what i have)

Dont know what else to try. I am worried about having to go 5 days abroad next Monday so they will be left "alone" with no fishkeeper, just a wife to feed them

I am thinking of rising the salinity level to 10gr per litre....not sure because i will not be here starting next monday.
Appreciate help
Thanks

 

[Colin_T]

Have you done any water changes to dilute anything bad that might be in the water?

Maybe add some carbon to the filter and see if that helps.

Treat them with Praziquantel or Flubendazole to kill any gill flukes. See how they do after that. Section 3 of the following link has information about deworming fish but it also applies to gill flukes.

What to do if your fish has Stringy White Poop.

Fish do a stringy white poop for several reasons. 1) Internal Bacterial Infections causes the fish to stop eating, swell up like a balloon, breath heavily at the surface or near a filter outlet, do stringy white poop, and die within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms. This cannot normally be...

www.fishforums.net

 

[GaryE]

There are several possibilities, not least among them killing with kindness. Four angels in a hospital tank that small will be stressed through the ceiling, even if in perfect health. The fish in the video look stressed, and look like they are fighting, and frightened since one fish is winning.

You've been flinging meds at them, for the right reasons but not in the right way. If anything, I would suspect mild parasites. More likely though, it's environmental and social.
Angels need large tanks with lots of live decor. Those stripes they have show the set up - tall plants coming up from the bottom, like Vallisneria americana, tall wood to imitate reeds, and such. Your tank decor is crucial.
You may have gotten several males, or all males, and one male per tank is what works. Angels have a way of making people expand and get more tanks, as once they reach maturity, only one male will survive unless the tank is huge and you have a lot angels in it.
In the wild, losers in conflicts swim away. Trapped in a small glass walled environment, they can't.They will drop to the bottom or go to the top corners, clamping to show submission and breathing heavily.
I would start a radical water changing regime, now. No meds, especially salt. It's a harsh chemical in tanks. 40-50% dechlorinated water changes daily, back in the main tank. Do it til you leave, and when you return, if there is no disease (I can't see one) start watching closely to see who is throwing his weight around, and who he's targetting. What comes next is hard, because you can't keep one angel in that small hospital tank.
The fin rot was probably bickering injuries, btw. The first two had claimed the tank, and when the other two went in, they began at a serious disadvantage and were probably under attack from the get go.

 

[safcraft]

Hi,

I honestly dont see this as a fighting for territory thing yet. I observe them closely for 4 weeks now, and even in the main tank i dont see then picking at each other. I know picking, i had Angels in the past ( 20 years ago when i had a different tank).
Symptoms of retracted fins, pale color and fin rot appeared in the main tank, wich is more than adequate for these small 4 angels. It has lots of hiding places and tall plants.

I started doing 30% water changes twice a day , they seem to respond better breathing calmer.
Also started eSha GDX (wich is what i have available for gill Flukes) dont know if that helped too.

The 2 smaller ones are in pristine shape now....the 2 larger Manacapuru not so much.
I have been feeding them bloodworms and sacrificing baby guppys from the main tank. They refuse dry food (i think they are spoiled now....but also still stressed)

I cant treat the main tank with salt or i risk killing plants and Corys. Medding 450L is too much.
I will be off tomorrow and i leave then with some neocaridina shrimps for them to hunt during 4 days.
I will try to return them to the main tank if all i see is behavirour and not signs of worms/infecttions.
Thnks

 

[safcraft]

Hi all,

I managed to cure them with the med for Gill Flukes !
They are doing much better now, regular breathing and they eat normally.
I will keep them in the hospital tank a few more days.
Thank you for the tips!

 

[anewbie]

Hi all,

I managed to cure them with the med for Gill Flukes !
They are doing much better now, regular breathing and they eat normally.
I will keep them in the hospital tank a few more days.
Thank you for the tips!

This is very good information. I want to make a few comments - it is hard to judge the age of the angels (not how long you've had them but true age) - but from hte picture i would guess 6 to 9 months. I will have to agree at that age 13 gallons is way too small and i would move them as soon as you think they are healthy - naturally if they are closer to 2 to 4 months (nickel to quarter size) then a smaller tank is fine. Once they hit sexual maturity - depending on their sexes you will have to make some decisions. The females (if 1 to 3) will make all the choices - she will decide who she will mate with and who is allowed to remain in the same aquarium - she might be hyper aggressive or more docile. If you have 4 males or 4 females there is a reasonable chance they will all get along. The males might 'bicker' for dominance but no real damage will be done and eventually they will settle down (eventually can be a week or six months); they might occasionally bicker after that if one of the other males want to take control. If you have 4 females they might just accept each other and 2 of them might even pair. If you have 2 males and 2 females it will be a crap shoot if both pairs get along and there are a lot of different things that can happen here from 1 female killing the other to both females ignoring the males.

I've had very passive females in the past and very aggressive females and you just can't judge but be aware the females don't like to bicker - they will either make threat and expect the other fish to retreat or kill it. They can decide on a territory as small as sub 1 sqft or as large as 6 sqft - it really comes down to individual. Amazingly my most passive female was the best mother - in a community tank she only kept a small area around here as her spot; she could raise eggs to fee swimming without issue and she never harrassed the other females as long as they stayed at least 1 foot away; but i have had extremely vicious females in the past and you just can't predict.