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Angel fish with red patch and looks like being eaten

Discussion in 'Tropical Fish Emergencies' started by Dan1000, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Dan1000

    Dan1000 New Member

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    Hi, am new to posting but have read many threads before. Hoping someone can help. We have a 145 l planted tropical tank, with driftwood, 12 months setup, fully cycled. Tank stats are pH 7.2, temp 27C, nitrates 0, nitrates 20, runningan Eheim professional 3 and an aqua one oscillators 850. We have a gold Guorami, 4 hatchets, 2 dwarf rainbows, 2 rainbows, 1 vampire plec, 3 shrimp, 5 snails, 5 platies, 3 siamesa and 6 Cory's and a blushing angel Koi, i know that is full but All have been doing fine for a few months but recently noticed the angel had red appearing Infront of its gill. Googled and checked this forum and deduced it was a blushing koi.....however, since then over the last couple of weeks it has got worse. Have treated this week with algol and ektocrystal, no better. Angel is either at the bottom just wanting to be on its own ( not usual) or at the top, in both places hills are moving quickly. We also have 2 airstones and I took out carbon and unplugged UV light for treatment. Food wise we vary, brine shrimp, pellets, tablets, flakes with garlic. Please see pics.....I can't find anything like on forum or Google etc
     

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  2. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Hi and welcome to the forum :)

    If you post pics of the other rainbows we should be able to ID them for you.

    What is algol and ektocrystal?

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    In image wa0007 the fish has a dark patch on the gill cover (behind the eye) and there is a milky white edge to the dark patch. Is this the issue?

    Same picture the fish appears to have a black and red thing between the dorsal (top) fin and the tail. Is this on the fish or was the fish in front of something black and red?

    There also appears to be a couple of small white circles on the body near the black line that runs from the dorsal to anal (bottom) fin.

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    The gill cover appears to have an ulcer, which is caused by a bacterial infection dissolving the gill cover. You generally need anti-biotics to treat ulcers in fish and they sometimes work and sometimes don't. You might be able to find a medicated fish food (for goldfish ulcer disease) that contains anti-biotics and you feed this to the fish 3 times a day for 2 weeks. Medicated food will not affect the filter bacteria and can be fed to all of the fish in the aquarium, or you can isolate the fish in a separate tank and feed & treat it there.

    If you use Anti-biotics in the water, they will wipe out filter bacteria so sick fish should be treated in a separate tank. If you have a spare aquarium or large plastic storage container, you can move the fish into that and treat it with anti-biotics. As to which anti-biotic you use will depend on what is available.

    You can take the fish to the vet and get them to take a swab of the area and look at it under a microscope and then prescribe anti-biotics suitable for the infection. However, this will cost a lot of money.

    You could euthanize the fish. A lot of fish that develop ulcers have an underlying issue like Tuberculosis (TB) and they continue to get more ulcers before dying. Angelfish are not renown for having TB or ulcers but they can still catch TB and develop ulcers. The ulcers themselves are caused by various bacteria (not TB) that get into a small wound and spread. Fish living in the wrong water conditions or that are being bullied or attacked, or those with a weakened/ compromised immune system are more likely to develop them.

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    If you use anti-biotics you will need to treat the container/ tank each day for several weeks. You normally continue treatment for 1 week after the infection has gone and the area has started to heal. Each day you wipe the inside of the container down and drain out all of the water and replace it with clean dechlorinated water, and then retreat the container with a full dose of medication.

    To work out the volume of water in the tank:
    measure length x width x height in cm.
    divide by 1000.
    = volume in litres.

    When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

    There is a calculator/ converter in the "How To Tips" at the top of this page that will let you convert litres to gallons if you need it.

    Remove carbon from the filter before treating or it will absorb the medication and stop it working.

    Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

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    While you are treating the angelfish in another tank/ container, you should do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate (in the main tank) each day for 2 weeks. Clean the filter too if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. This will help dilute any bacteria and other disease organisms in the tank and reduce the chance of the ulcer bacteria infecting other fish.

    After 2 weeks of daily water changes you can go back to doing them once a week.

    Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

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    You can add a vitamin supplement to the fish's diet each day to help them fight the infection. Some pet shops carry fish vitamins. If these are not available then you can use bird or reptile vitamin supplements.

    Get a dry powder supplement rather than a liquid one. The liquid supplements go off very quickly.

    You can crush up vitamin C tablets and sprinkle a bit onto some frozen (but defrosted) food and feed the fish that a couple of times a day. You can also give them green feed in the form of crushed or finely cut up aquarium plants or dark green leafy vegetables (spinach & silverbeet). Make sure they are clean and free of chemicals.
     
  3. Dan1000

    Dan1000 New Member

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    Hi Colin, thanks so much for your time and a fab detail of what we should do.
    The Ektocrystal and Algol are JBL to treat bacteria.
    Am afraid all the advice has been in vain but hoping others put it to good use. We had someone look at it and you were right with it being an ulcer, unfortunately it was even bigger today and so we sadly went for the Euthanasia approach.
    Again, thanks for your detailed response
    Dan
     
  4. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    Sorry to hear the fish didn't make it :(

    I would do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate each day for a week and clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. This will help reduce the number of microscopic organisms in the water and help reduce the chance of the other fish getting sick. Hopefully none of them will. Then monitor everyone over the next month and see how they go. With any luck the others will be fine and no more will have the issue.

    Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

    You can add vitamin supplements and veges to the tank for the remaining fish. It won't hurt them and might help boost their immune system, which should help reduce the chance of them getting sick. :)
     
  5. Dan1000

    Dan1000 New Member

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    Thanks Colin, sad time. Added vitamins and veges regularly anyway and use RO water as our tap water is poor! Will do the gravel cleans and water changes though, whip the UV back on and get carbon back in. Thanks for the advice.
    Dan
     
  6. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    How bad is your tapwater?
    I ask because R/O (reverse osmosis) water is very soft and has no minerals in. This is fine to a degree assuming the fish come from very soft water, however some of your fish come from hard water (platies like a GH above 200ppm) and the snails and shrimp need calcium for their shells. Rainbowfish also do a lot better in hard water (GH above 150ppm). Bacteria and other disease organisms will grow faster in soft water.

    I would look into adding a Rift Lake conditioner designed for African Rift Lake cichlids. Add it at about 1/3 dose and that will raise the GH to about 150ppm, which will be better for the platies, rainbows, shrimp & snails.

    You will have to add the Rift Lake conditioner each time you do a water change. The easiest way is to fill a couple of big buckets with R/O water and add x amount of Rift Lake conditioner, add an airstone and let the mixture aerate for 24 hours. Then use that water to do a water change. The Rift Lake conditioner will increase the GH, KH and the pH, but the pH shouldn't go too high, probably around 7.6

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    When you gravel clean the substrate, do the areas that don't have plants. Gravel around any live plants and leave them alone so you don't damage their roots. :)
     
    #6 Colin_T, Oct 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  7. Dan1000

    Dan1000 New Member

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    Thanks again, sincere apologies again for delay, hadn't seen notifications so feel free to ignore my message! According to my LFS my tap water is crap, it is from bore hole and shouldn't be used for a cuppa! I will look at raising the GH as you recommend. I probably should not try and have so many different varieties of fish. Thanks again. Happy New Year!
     
  8. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    I would get the bore water tested and see what it is like. If it's from a deep underground stream or reservoir, it should be fine. Some ground water is soft and some is hard so it would be worth checking.
     
  9. Dan1000

    Dan1000 New Member

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    Thanks again Colin, will get it checked again. From memory when they tested it I think it was the kH was sky high, but I could be wrong it was kH so will test again. Thanks
     
  10. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    If you are testing ground water, you should check it for everything you can, eg: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, GH, KH and phosphate (if you can).

    You should also aerate ground water for 30 minutes or more before using it to get the dissolved gasses back to normal, before it is added to the tank.
     

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