An Idea(cancer)

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Opcn

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I'm not sure about yall, but I've been hearing a lot about a drug called Dichloroacetate, its basically partially chlorinated vinegar, but what it can do it regulate the way cells metabolize energy. Its been used for a while to treat a rare metabolic disorder in humans and is pretty safe. However, this drug has an unexpected side effect, It kills cancer, in petri dishes and rats that is... Hasn't been tested in humans yet. My thought is to test this with fish with cancer, to see if it can help, because A) its cheap and B) it would be cool. Now I know that black swordtails are aid to be at high risk of developing melanoma, so a bumpy and sick black swordtail would be a good place to start.

DCA aperently works by restricting the ability of cells to utilize the anaerobic process of glycolysis in order to metabolize sugars, since the mitochondria cannot keep up with the growth rate or energy needs the cancer cells theoretically go into apoptosis. So what do yall think?
 
Wow, how long has this been around? And do you know how it differenciates between a normal cell and a cancer cell, because they are more or less the same, just with faulty controls.
Cheers
Greg
 
Its been around long enough for the pattent to run out. But most Cancer cells are very very different, thats why Chemo works and why we can ID them through microscopy.
 
can't see any harm in trying it out on a dying fish. might want to write to medical journal or two and ask them about it first. wish I could be more helpfull. I'm very interested in this topic.
 
That's pretty interesting...I'm going to school right now to be a Cytotechnologist (basically we ID cancer cells or other cell abnormalities with microscopy), so obviously it's something I'm interested in. Keep us updated on your progress!
 
I dont see how any one chemical could target cancer cells and not regular cells. Cancer cells /are/ regular cells. If you target one, you target the other.
 
I dont see how any one chemical could target cancer cells and not regular cells. Cancer cells /are/ regular cells. If you target one, you target the other.

ok jus had a quick check back on some notes and a web site or two.
Chemo works by affecting the cancer cells, and it also affects some 'natural' cells to. The affect on other cells not just the cancer ones is what causes the side effects. Not had alot of time as of late, but ill be keeping an eye on this post even if im not contributing :)
Greg
 
I dont see how any one chemical could target cancer cells and not regular cells. Cancer cells /are/ regular cells. If you target one, you target the other.

ok jus had a quick check back on some notes and a web site or two.
Chemo works by affecting the cancer cells, and it also affects some 'natural' cells to. The affect on other cells not just the cancer ones is what causes the side effects. Not had alot of time as of late, but ill be keeping an eye on this post even if im not contributing :)
Greg

Cancer cells are regular cells that have become mutated so much so that they divide extremely quickly and lose a lot of the growth inhibition that normal cells have, so they just keep growing even when they bump into other cells. Chemo works because it targets actively proliferating (growing) cells. This is why chemo patients lose all their hair (hair follicles are actively growing), become anemic and have a decreased immune system (you're constantly making new red and white blood cells).
 
Even taking all that has been said above into account, there are some other difficulties that will present themselves.

Firstly, are you really set-up and qualified to positively identify fish-cancer? You may suspect it is cancer, but unless you take a biopsy, you cannot know for sure. Plus you have to know if the growth is benign or malignant. So, you have to be able to perform surgery on these fish, and look at the cells under a microscope, perform the tests chemicals to put on the slide to learn how the cells were/are acting.

Then, you will have to come back and check the fish, accurately measure the change in size of the tumor, and perform many, many tests to ensure statistical significance. All the while keeping all the other variables as constant as possible.

Finally, just because the chemical may work in petri dishes and rats, certainly does not mean it will translate over to fish. A fish's cold-blooded system is built very differently from the rat's warm-blooded system, and certainly is not a petri dish.

But, if you have the chemical, and you are at your wits' end, you might as well try. While using (any) medicine I hope that you will watch the fish closely to make sure that the medicine isn't causing more suffering than is necessary. Chlorine plus an acid may not be the most comfortable for the fish -- I don't know. Just be sure to be ready to do an emergency water change if the fish are suffering from your experiment.
 

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