Ammonia or Ammonium question

[Ben2522]

Hello. So my tank is a 55 gal and has recently just had fish put in after cycling. My PH is about 5.5. 26 Degrees C. Slightly Planted aquarium. 5 tiger barbs and a little hero of a platy. I am not expecting any issues with ammonia but good to ask the questions now rather than in panic. Not stocking more until I understand questions I have.

I was wondering. If all of a sudden i have a ammonia spike for some unknown reason. Will this just convert automatically to Ammonium and not be toxic to my fish as my PH is low? Obviously the test kits show both at the same time so its hard to tell which. Although the research I have done says I don't have to worry about ammonia in my tank? So lets say the ammonia alert starts blinking, is that ammonium and no problem or should I still panic? Are there any test kits that distinguish between ammonia and ammonium?

Second question, the plants seem to be slightly pale green and I havent noticed any grown this week. Are they dying and what can I do about it? They get average natural light through the day and the aquarium light is set to come on for 4 hours each evening. OR is it just the bedding in phase for them and they will establish soon?

Main question though is the ammonium.

Thanks
BEn

 

[Essjay]

Ammonia exists in 2 forms in water, ammonia and ammonium, and they are in an equilibrium - the molecules are constantly changing from one form to the other. The proportion of the total ammonia that is in each form is determined by the temperature and pH. Temperature of tropical tanks varies little, but pH can be at any level over a wide range. At low pH, the equilibrium is pushed towards ammonium while at high pH it is pushed towards ammonia.

Our test kits read total ammonia, which is ammonia and ammonium combined. The easy way to check how much is in the ammonia form is to use this calculator https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

Enter your ammonia reading, temp and pH and set salinity to zero. When you've clicked 'calculate' you want the number in the box 'NH3 concentration'

The lower that number is the better. But fish will be OK in 0.02 for a few days and 0.05 for a shorter time. If the number is well below 0.02, the fish are fine.
Using your figures, even a reading of 1.0 with an ammonia tester (that is, total ammonia) gives an ammonia level 0.0002. In other words, the reading from an ammonia tester will have to get quite high to harm the fish at your pH.

 

[Colin_T]

If the pH is below 7.0, you will get a non toxic form of ammonium.
If the pH is above 7.0, you get the toxic form of ammonia.

Having said that, ammonium still harms fish but it significantly less harmful to them than ammonia is, but it is generally considered harmless unless it is in very high levels (above 10ppm).

Even in acid water with a pH below 7.0, you should try to keep ammonium levels as low as possible. The easiest way to dilute this is with a 75% water change.

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Ammonia and ammonium are more toxic in warmer water, as are nitrite and nitrate.

---------------
If the pH is below 7.0, any nitrite will be more toxic.
If the pH is above 7.0, nitrite is less toxic.

 

[Essjay]

Colin is quite right, even ammonium is not 100% non-toxic, so water changes should still be done.

 

[Ben2522]

Ammonia exists in 2 forms in water, ammonia and ammonium, and they are in an equilibrium - the molecules are constantly changing from one form to the other. The proportion of the total ammonia that is in each form is determined by the temperature and pH. Temperature of tropical tanks varies little, but pH can be at any level over a wide range. At low pH, the equilibrium is pushed towards ammonium while at high pH it is pushed towards ammonia.

Our test kits read total ammonia, which is ammonia and ammonium combined. The easy way to check how much is in the ammonia form is to use this calculator https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php

Enter your ammonia reading, temp and pH and set salinity to zero. When you've clicked 'calculate' you want the number in the box 'NH3 concentration'

The lower that number is the better. But fish will be OK in 0.02 for a few days and 0.05 for a shorter time. If the number is well below 0.02, the fish are fine.
Using your figures, even a reading of 1.0 with an ammonia tester (that is, total ammonia) gives an ammonia level 0.0002. In other words, the reading from an ammonia tester will have to get quite high to harm the fish at your pH.

Absolutely great and quick answer,Thanks. Im sure I will use that calculator a lot.

In regards to the plants. Do they take a while to establish and begin to grow?

 

[Byron]

I concur with other members here. The bottom line is, you do not have "ammonia" reading above zero now (I assume from your post) and frankly you are extremely unlikely to see "ammonia" if you have plants, floating plants, and do weekly substantial partial water changes.

 

[Colin_T]

Sorry forgot about the plants. Yes they take a few weeks to settle in and if there are no nutrients (from iron based plant fertiliser), the plants will take longer to settle in.

The low pH can affect some plants and stop them growing or even kill them. Different types of Vallis will probably melt in your water with the low pH, so avoid them.

Plants can also suffer from pH shock so try to find out what the pH of their water is before you get them, and if it is noticeably different, put the plants in quarantine and slowly lower the pH over a few weeks.

--------------
Most aquarium plants like a bit of light and if you only have the light on for a couple of hours a day, they struggle. If the light doesn't have a high enough wattage they also struggle. Try having the tank lights on for 10-12 hours a day.

If you get lots of green algae then reduce the light by an hour a day and monitor the algae over the next 2 weeks.
If you don't get any green algae on the glass then increase the lighting period by an hour and monitor it.
If you get a small amount of algae then the lighting time is about right.

Some plants will close their leaves up when they have had sufficient light. Ambulia, Hygrophilas and a few others close their top set of leaves first, then the next set and so on down the stem. When you see this happening, wait an hour after the leaves have closed up against the stem and then turn lights off.

 

[Ben2522]

If the pH is below 7.0, you will get a non toxic form of ammonium.
If the pH is above 7.0, you get the toxic form of ammonia.

Having said that, ammonium still harms fish but it significantly less harmful to them than ammonia is, but it is generally considered harmless unless it is in very high levels (above 10ppm).

Even in acid water with a pH below 7.0, you should try to keep ammonium levels as low as possible. The easiest way to dilute this is with a 75% water change.

---------------
Ammonia and ammonium are more toxic in warmer water, as are nitrite and nitrate.

---------------
If the pH is below 7.0, any nitrite will be more toxic.
If the pH is above 7.0, nitrite is less toxic.

Thanks you for your reply. So I would need to keep a very close eye on nitrite in the event ammonia spikes. obviously do water changes but my theory would be in my conditions if Ammonia spikes, ten I would give that a little more tiume so the bacteria can catch up and when nitrite rises then water change. THis allows a bit of a cycle to stop the ammonia from spiking in the first place?
Thanks

 

[Byron]

Thanks you for your reply. So I would need to keep a very close eye on nitrite in the event ammonia spikes. obviously do water changes but my theory would be in my conditions if Ammonia spikes, ten I would give that a little more tiume so the bacteria can catch up and when nitrite rises then water change. THis allows a bit of a cycle to stop the ammonia from spiking in the first place?
Thanks

This is highly unlikely. With a pH below 6 the bacteria are basically nil. "Ammonia" will be ammonium, and the plants will take it up. That's all there is to it. You will not see nitrite. And I cannot imagine how you could ever see ammonia/ammonium with plants growing...floating are an absolute here.

 

[Ben2522]

I concur with other members here. The bottom line is, you do not have "ammonia" reading above zero now (I assume from your post) and frankly you are extremely unlikely to see "ammonia" if you have plants, floating plants, and do weekly substantial partial water changes.

Hi. No, no ammonia spike currently but as I do research and new questions come up, I would rather have the answers so I dont need to rely on others. I can act quickly and correctly. The main reason is I am about to fully stock this and the bacteria wont be ready to handle another 10 tiger barbs, 6 zebra loaches(the friendly one and potentially 6 other fish. Being proactive opposed to reactive.

 

[Byron]

Hi. No, no ammonia spike currently but as I do research and new questions come up, I would rather have the answers so I dont need to rely on others. I can act quickly and correctly. The main reason is I am about to fully stock this and the bacteria wont be ready to handle another 10 tiger barbs, 6 zebra loaches(the friendly one and potentially 6 other fish. Being proactive opposed to reactive.

That is a wise approach, being forearmed rather than reacting later.

At a pH below 6 (yours is said to be 5.5) the nitrifying bacteria are dormant.

 

[Ben2522]

That is a wise approach, being forearmed rather than reacting later.

At a pH below 6 (yours is said to be 5.5) the nitrifying bacteria are dormant.

Hi Ok. So I don't need to worry about bacteria but more if the plants survive? really no idea then now if there will be basically 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite. Just need to worry about nitrate or will the plants also take care of that? IF there is no cycle as such what does this thing even look like now? Please be as detailed as possible.

Can this be a self sufficient tank with no need for water changes?

 

[Byron]

Can this be a self sufficient tank with no need for water changes?

No. There is no such thing, at least not for most of us in the hobby. I recall some years ago reading that a heavily-planted 55g (48 by 12 inch/120 by 30cm) tank with a group of six black neon tetras might be self-sustaining. Most of us like more than six 1-inch fish in this large a tank.

Water changes are essential if fish are to be healthy. I change 60-75% of the water in each of my tanks once each week. There is "pollution" that cannot be removed by any filter, nor by plants, and only with water changes.

So I don't need to worry about bacteria but more if the plants survive? really no idea then now if there will be basically 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite. Just need to worry about nitrate or will the plants also take care of that? IF there is no cycle as such what does this thing even look like now? Please be as detailed as possible.

Nitrate can occur from too high an organic level. This is where regular (once weekly) and substantial (50-70%) water changes come in. Along with not overstocking and not overfeeding. And regular cleaning of the filter and open substrate areas (the brown gunk is the organics).

Plants lower nitrates but not primarily by actually using them. My tanks all run in the range of pH 4-5 and one is low 6's. I have never seen ammonia or nitrite, and nitrate for over ten years now has always tested in the 0-5 ppm range. All of the tanks have good floating plants, most have some lower plants too, but the floaters are important. Some of them are certainly well stocked but not over-stocked.

 

[Ben2522]

No. There is no such thing, at least not for most of us in the hobby. I recall some years ago reading that a heavily-planted 55g (48 by 12 inch/120 by 30cm) tank with a group of six black neon tetras might be self-sustaining. Most of us like more than six 1-inch fish in this large a tank.

Water changes are essential if fish are to be healthy. I change 60-75% of the water in each of my tanks once each week. There is "pollution" that cannot be removed by any filter, nor by plants, and only with water changes.



Nitrate can occur from too high an organic level. This is where regular (once weekly) and substantial (50-70%) water changes come in. Along with not overstocking and not overfeeding. And regular cleaning of the filter and open substrate areas (the brown gunk is the organics).

Plants lower nitrates but not primarily by actually using them. My tanks all run in the range of pH 4-5 and one is low 6's. I have never seen ammonia or nitrite, and nitrate for over ten years now has always tested in the 0-5 ppm range. All of the tanks have good floating plants, most have some lower plants too, but the floaters are important. Some of them are certainly well stocked but not over-stocked.

Ok that so i feel pretty luck then really. defo gunna get some more plants and probably floating ones. cheers

 

[Retired Viking]

Good floating plants are water sprite, hornwort, moneywort, and aracharis they are all easy to care for and absorb ammonia at a higher rate than most rooted plants. I do a planted/silent cycle which is about what you are doing. I would suggest not adding the fish all at once but in groups and testing the water to make sure the plants can handle the waste-ammonia the fish produce before adding the next group. Good luck.