Air Pump Filter And Co2

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Byron said:
 
 


You will likely need some fertilizer.  In so small a tank, forget the dry.  The complete liquids are much easier, and you use so little of them they are not particularly costly.  Now some background on nutrients.
 
The only thing is that if both the large and the smaller tank are getting ferts, the dry are definitely the way to go, as it would add unnecessary cost to have both liquid and dry.  
 
 
This is a very good point.  I readily acknowledge my inexperience with dry ferts, as I have never used them.  I have seven planted tanks in my fish room, and the liquids are still not expensive if you know where to get them and what you need.  Products like Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive for instance is highly concentrated, and even in a 55g you would likely not need more than 1/2 a teaspoon every week.  The other thing is that dry ferts are primarily macro-nutrients (NPK I believe, unless I am mistaken) and intended for high-tech systems where these are not going to be replenished naturally, and with low-tech systems it is the micro that usually need to be added, and not in large quantities.  And with reputable liquid preparations, one is getting everything that is necessary, and in balance.  My 2L jug of Flourish Comp has lasted me more than 2 years and is still not empty.


 
 
You can get both.
 
I get my dry ferts from this guy: nilocg.  http://nilocg.com/
 
Great pricing, great deals.  
 
 
I use these in the water column, and for the heavy root feeders (Amazon Swords and crypts), I make my own root tabs with empty capsules filled with Osmocote+.  
 
This entire set-up ran me about $35, shipping included... and I haven't had to purchase anything else for about 3 years so far.  The osmocote will likely last me the next 10 years or more if used exclusively for fishy plants... but I think I will be using some of it in the garden too!   The dry ferts themselves ran me about $22, shipping included from the guy linked above.  I got the package: http://nilocg.com/ei-based-npk-csm-b/  Although, at the time, he was offering his CSM-B as CSM-B+... the "+" was to include chelated iron.  
 
In my 15 gallon planted tank, I have pressurized CO2 running in the back left corner of the tank without an air pump or power head to disperse the bubbles, however, the filter (HOB) is placed over on the right side of the tank, and the intake seems to bring the bubbles over and the output actually disperses the CO2 throughout the tank. This can be seen with the CO2 indicator that's placed on the front glass on the right side of the tank. 
 
Sorry for the confusion on the tanks but I will talk strictly about the nano tank now and will run down the posts answering the questions and giving relevant information, apologies if miss anything.
 
My Nano Tank is a 40cm cube and has a volume of 67 Litres/17 US Gallons.
 
I will now start holding back on the CO2 and focus on getting the balance right in the tank instead, I would love for my tank to resemble something like yours.
 
As for the ferts I think I will get dry as I plan on using it in both tanks, the set I am looking at getting is this one http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.htmlwhich, I believe, is very similar to what eagles has got.
 
I am unable to find any information on the ingredients in Neutro T/+ or the CO2, the site says that T is the trace and + is the macros so would need both in order to achieve a complete fertiliser.
 
I have been dosing the Neutro T for about 4 months along with the CO2 and it doesn't seem to help my plants at all.
 
Would you say that the current bulb I have on my tank is too bright? If so when looking at buying CFL's do I base the wattage on what it uses or what it is equivalent to? 
 
Thanks for all the help I really appreciate it
 
As for the ferts I think I will get dry as I plan on using it in both tanks, the set I am looking at getting is this one http://www.aquariump...tarter-kit.htmlwhich, I believe, is very similar to what eagles has got.
 
I am unable to find any information on the ingredients in Neutro T/+ or the CO2, the site says that T is the trace and + is the macros so would need both in order to achieve a complete fertiliser.
 
I have been dosing the Neutro T for about 4 months along with the CO2 and it doesn't seem to help my plants at all.
 
 
OK, something else has to be understood now that you are going down this road (dry ferts, which I personally do not recommend for reasons I will momentarily give, but it is your decision and I will try to set out the facts as best I can to your questions regardless so you can at least make an informed decision).
 
Starting with your last sentence...is this the nano tank (which I thought was still being set up) or the larger?  If the larger, I've no idea what your lighting is, and this may be the issue here.  Neutro T is supposedly trace elements, but again I cannot find a list.  But in a low-tech method planted tank [if you don't understand this, ask] it could be all you need.
 
To the micro/macro issue...maybe.  A planted aquarium with live fish will have some macro nutrients in abundance, or at least likely sufficient for those plants.  Oxygen, hydrogen, carbon and nitrogen occur naturally.  Calcium usually comes via water changes, depending upon the GH of your source water (presume tap water).  Magnesium the same.  So with these two, we need to know the GH.  Then there is potassium, phosphorus, and sulphur.  That's it for the macros.  Phosphorus in fish foods will be more than sufficient (in low-tech), leaving potassium and sulfur.  So, as you can no doubt see, many of these may be there at sufficient levels, which depends upon the plant species (some needing more than others) and lighting intensity.  So this leaves the micro nutrients, which are boron, iron, chloride, nickel, copper, manganese, molybdenum, and zinc.  All of these will likely be entering via fish foods and water changes, but sometimes not, so generally they are the nutrients that may need to be supplemented.
 
Dry ferts work best in high-tech systems because there will not be sufficient of any of these, macro or micro, to provide the plants' requirements.  You just cannot have enough fish in the tank to provide these nutrients in sufficient quantity when you have fast-growing plants in such numbers needing so much.  Adding macro nutrients like nitrogen can be risky; nitrogen for aquatic plants comes in the form of ammonia/ammonium, produced by fish respiration and the breakdown of organics, and again in low-tech systems there is almost always going to be sufficient.  If you start adding nitrogen, it often causes algae problems, at the very least.  I have a 20g that is lightly planted with culls from the other tanks, and used as my QT for new fish.  It can sit for months with no fish, yet the plants continue to grow--not as fast or a luxuriant as in the other tanks certainly, but the point is that I only add a 1/2 tsp of a comprehensive fert once a week at it is sufficient.  I have never had algae issues in this tank (or the 10g pictured earlier).
 
You linked to the EI method in your last post.  This is definitely a high-tech method, and one I do not support whole-heartedly.  It involves over-dosing nutrients, deliberately beyond what the plants probably require, then doing water changes to get rid of what is not used.  On the face of it, this sounds fine, but remember that all this stuff entering the water is entering the fish.  And, in a low-tech system with less light and no diffused CO2, this is a real recipe for algae soup.  I certainly would not recommend this for someone trying their first planted tank.  As my photos earlier showed, good plant growth does not depend upon all this.  But you do need to understand the basics, and achieve that balance.
 
Would you say that the current bulb I have on my tank is too bright? If so when looking at buying CFL's do I base the wattage on what it uses or what it is equivalent to?
 
 
Now that I know the tank size, I would say it may be too much or maybe OK.  I have two 9w CFL bulbs over my 10g and my 20g, but a cube tank is a bit deeper.  
 
By the way, I missed an issue you mentioned back a couple posts, on the watts/litre.  This is useless these days.  Back when we only had one type of fluorescent tube lighting, T12 (which is now T8), it was a fairly good guide.  But today the tubes are better made, producing more light intensity for less energy, and watts is simply the measurement unit for the amount of energy (electricity) a tube or bulb requires.  Watts is not relevant to the light output, exscept when comparing identical tubes/bulbs.  For example, the CFL bulb you are using, here the higher the watts the more intensity.  But aside from this, no.  I have T8 tubes, and over my largest tank, a 5-foot 115gallon, I have two 32 w tubes, for a total of 64 watts.  This is way below the "recommended" level of 2w per gallon [you mention an even higher level of 2w per litre], yet my plants are thriving and growing like weeds.  However, only certain plant species will manage with this moderate light, some would never last.  Back to that balance again.
 
Byron.
 
Yes everything I am talking about now is on the nano tank, I started setting it up a few months ago and was able to kick start it by adding a matured sponge filter. I am picking up 4 Scarlet Badis tomorrow for the tank.
 
Ok so based on the lights that you use on your tanks my light is pretty much double what you use and I guess in turn would cause the plants to use the nutrients faster during the photoperiod, meaning that I don't have enough nutrients for the light intensity I am using but could for a lower intensity light.
 
Could the fact that the tank currently has no stock in it be causing a defficency in the nutrients that are normally available? Should I increase the number of water changes as well to keep topping them up?
 
I do use tap water in my tank but I unfortunately don't have a GH test kit, however a report of the water quality for my area can be found here which will hopefully help highlight any defficiencies from source.
 
I am struggling to decide what to do as I have done quite a lot of research and read a lot of different opinions and methods. For example here on this thread alone there are 3 different methods all of which provide stunning results. I have tried various things to keep plants going and never come out victorious, 
 
I'm desperate to try and gain an improvement on the quality of the plants in my tank so that I can provide my livestock with a better environment to live in but need a direction in which to follow and what to change.
 
I am picking up 4 Scarlet Badis tomorrow for the tank
 
 
These are delicate fish.  I have had them twice but they slowly died both times because they would only eat live food.  I had the second group on frozen, but sadly only bloodworms and this is not the best food.  Some have managed to get them eating prepared foods.  The other thing is water parameters, these are very soft water fish (there is no indication of the general hardness or total hardness,or even carbonate hardness/Alkalinity in that report, but the pH is in the mid 7's which might but might not necessarily mean harder water).  You certainly do not want to be messing with additives as these fish being so small are highly susceptible to stuff in the water.
 
Ok so based on the lights that you use on your tanks my light is pretty much double what you use and I guess in turn would cause the plants to use the nutrients faster during the photoperiod, meaning that I don't have enough nutrients for the light intensity I am using but could for a lower intensity light.
 
 
Not necessarily.  Remember, watts is meaningless when we are not comparing identical tubes/bulbs.  I don't know the chemical make-up of the bulb (and it wouldn't help if I did) so I've no idea what sort of intensity it is outputting.  Also, plants use nutrients but their uptake is solely dependent upon the light intensity as this is what drives photosynthesis.  And each species of plant is different.
 
Could the fact that the tank currently has no stock in it be causing a defficency in the nutrients that are normally available? Should I increase the number of water changes as well to keep topping them up?
 
 
Yes to the first question, though this may not be too much, depending.  But as this is a relatively new set-up, the build-up of organics in the substrate will be less that what it will in a few more months, and this means you will then have more nutrients especially CO2.  Without fish, water changes are less important, but yes, they do add the "hard" minerals like calcium and magnesium, but there are still all the rest.
 
On the GH, see if you can contact the water authority in the morning, ask for general hardness or total hardness, and also for carbonate hardness which is sometimes termed Alkalinity.  The GH is critical to fish (less to plants unless it is very soft like mine is here), the KH is important to know as it buffers the pH.
 
Yes, there are nearly as many methods as planted tank aquarists.  I make no hesitation in pointing out that I follow the "less is better" principle, and it bears results that are not as fancy as someone at the other end with high-tech, but the method should be determined by what you want in the end.  An aquatic gardener is not going to be too satisfied with my tanks, but they suit me because they are natural and the fish are the primary residents.  If you have been having troubles with plants, there is a reason, and we are here to assist you in finding the reason and fixing it.
 
Byron.
 
I bought a Dennerle CO2 system with droper specifically made for small shrimp tanks.  It wasn't cheap but I want to encourage plant growth as much as possible and with the dropper and test kit that comes with it, I should be able to figure out the correct dosing.
 
I've gone for a 15 litre with Sulawesi black substrate and plant friendly substrate underneath, both allegedly developed for use in shrimp tanks.  My plan is for Crystal Reds but as I'm planning on moving house soon I've delayed setting this tank up any further so sadly I can't provide you with any more information on how the CO2 system is working.
 
Keep me posted on how you get on with it Far_King when you get the chance to set it up.
 
I bought my light purely on the fact it had the correct colour temperature (6500K) and the Lumens was right (1650). This was based on research I had completed at the time of setting up the tank.
 
I should've linked this page as well for my water quality as it provide the details on the hardness of the water and calcium. I would relay it but not entirely sure what measurement it is in. http://wessexwater.co.uk/postcoderesult/?postcode=BA2%202UG
 
Hopefully if I acclimate the Scarlet Badis carefully they won't do to bad and the fact that they have already been in similar water should hopefully bode well. But I will keep an eye on them and see how they go.
 
Thanks again for all the advice Byron, I have learnt such a lot over the past few days.
 
Just found this does it look ok? Here
 
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Ask the LFS you are getting the Badis from, what they have been feeding them... if they are taking any food, how long they have been in their current tank, etc.  
 
Its easier to get a fish in a new home to eat things its familiar with than something new in a new place.  If they can't give you any answers, then you are likely in for a harder go of it.
 
If they are eating, give them what they know and you can try to mix in some of the other things you feed gradually.  
 
I think the light should be OK; your cube tank is deeper than the rectangular ones.  You can always get a smaller-wattage bulb if you find after a few weeks that algae becomes a problem, though just keep in mind that the nutrient mix can be a factor in algae too.
 
Just a quick update on what I have decided to do.
 
I ended up going with dry ferts but not EI. I have a complete dry fert mix which I am going to combine with water at the required dose and add to the tank weekly. I also ordered 50x root tabs to help booth growth.
 
I'll keep you posted on how the ferts perform as it's not a recognised brand.
 

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