Advice On Seting Up New Tank.

[BrassMan]

Hi,

I'll be setting up a new tank this weekend, it's a Rena 150x50, 433ltrs (114USG) . I'm planning on putting quite a few plants in there and could do with some advice.

Substrate will be sand as I like the look of it, it's easy to keep clean and the fish I'm keeping seem to like it, what would you recommend I add to the sand, if anything, to give the plants the nutrients they need? My current thinking is nothing except a fertilizer stick for each plant.

Lighting, 4x36W which I think works out at about 1.2 WPG. I seem to remember reading that WPG is less important with a large tank so I'm a bit confused as to whether I should just go for plants that do well in low light or whether I can get some that prefer lots of light.

Should I use CO2? If so then I don't know of a yeast based system that will work on a tank this big so should I get a CO2 injection system and if so any recomendations?

Finally, if you've got a list of plants that you'd recommend for this setup I'd be very interested to have it. I'll probably put an order in with Java Plants once I've narrowed down the choices.

Sorry for all the questions.

Paul.

 

[Liam]

That’s a great size tank, wow! My thinking is that if you are thinking about getting Co2 you should really consider getting a plant substrate. If it was a choice for me between Co2 and a good substrate I would get the substrate it really makes a difference to the variety of plants you can grow. Even if you don’t get the recommended amount it would still make a big difference. You can of course cover it with the sand. There are lots of plants that get most of their food from the water column so if you just want to go with the sand you can get them.
I think the WPG for small tanks is about the amount of light that escapes through the glass. I don’t know that much about WPG but I think that 1.2 even in a big tank would be a low-medium light tank. With that amount of light, growth would be slower, so plant take up of Co2 would be low. I am a bit out of my depth here frankly.

As for plants there is a huge choice, if your water is hard or not would also dictate the choice to some extent. The tropica website is very good for descriptions and growing conditions, java ferns and moss, vallis, anubias, amazon swords, many of the cryptocoryne species, hygrophila of most kinds are just some of the more adaptable species.

Good luck with it,

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I would mic laterite into the bottom 1/3 of the sand.

WPG is moderated in larger and smaller tanks based on dispersion. As the light goes down into a tank it also spreads out. Same effect as shiniong a flashlight at a wall from 1 foot and then from 10 feet away. In a bigger tank the light disperses better, up to a point when depth becomes more of a limiting factor. That is why the wpg calculation is a rule of thumb not a scientific law.

 

[BrassMan]

Thanks Liam,

Yep, it's a big tank

My water is hard and alkaline, ph is approx 7.8 out of the tap at the moment. Do you think the species you mentioned will be ok with that?

I think I'll add a layer of plant substrate below the sand as you suggested, best to do it properly first time.

My local shops generally stock Laterite and Underworld AquaGrit would one of these do or maybe a mixture of both as a first layer and then maybe 2 inches of sand above. How does that sound?

Paul.

I would mic laterite into the bottom 1/3 of the sand.

WPG is moderated in larger and smaller tanks based on dispersion. As the light goes down into a tank it also spreads out. Same effect as shiniong a flashlight at a wall from 1 foot and then from 10 feet away. In a bigger tank the light disperses better, up to a point when depth becomes more of a limiting factor. That is why the wpg calculation is a rule of thumb not a scientific law.

Thats a good description, I think I understand WPG a little better know

I think I'll go with your laterite idea, the shops here seem to stock it, they also stock Underworld AquaGrit, would there be any benefit to mixing some of this in as well or should I just use laterite?

Thanks,

Paul.

 

[Themuleous]

Hi Paul,

Can I just say that before you buy anything for this tank you give some thought to what sort of tank you are hoping to run? There are two general types, low-light/tech or high-light/tech. The differences are obvious but the controlling factor is the amount of light. They vary greatly in what can be required from you.

Put very simply,

Low-light/tech -> low light would be around 1WPG for a tank of this size I would think, under such light the plants available are reduced to just hardy species like anubias, java ferns, some swords and some crypts and mosses. The need for a plant substrate is less critical (although if you can I always say its better to add one if you're able) CO2 is not essential, fert dosing is limited to a trace mix when needed (typically weekly or less), the aquascape you create whilst potentially still spectacular, takes longer to grow and will probably lack the red plants that can add a nice splash of colour to a tank. The big advantage of these tanks is that they require much less maintenance and pruning the plants far less often. This option is also much cheaper!

High-light/tech -> You go the whole hog, get lots of light over the tank (1.5 to 2WPG or over) you pump CO2 into the tank so its kept at a stable 30ppm, you have a good plant substrate like eco-complete or the ADA aqua soils, you can grow pretty much anything you want, have a great carpet of glosso and lots of nice vibrant red colors. You dose ferts (including PO4 and NO3) daily, CO2 is essential to help stop algae and you need to maintain and prune the tank weekly if not more. The down side is the cost to set up and maintain this sort of tank, but the rewards can be truly amazing tanks.

Can I suggest you read the pinned Estimative Index article as that should provide you with an idea of what is required for high light tanks

Hope the above helps, I really think you need to work out how much you can spend and how willing you are to have a tank that demands your time and money, but rewards you better

Sam

 

[BrassMan]

Hi Paul,

Can I just say that before you buy anything for this tank you give some thought to what sort of tank you are hoping to run? There are two general types, low-light/tech or high-light/tech. The differences are obvious but the controlling factor is the amount of light. They vary greatly in what can be required from you.

Put very simply,

Low-light/tech -> low light would be around 1WPG for a tank of this size I would think, under such light the plants available are reduced to just hardy species like anubias, java ferns, some swords and some crypts and mosses. The need for a plant substrate is less critical (although if you can I always say its better to add one if you're able) CO2 is not essential, fert dosing is limited to a trace mix when needed (typically weekly or less), the aquascape you create whilst potentially still spectacular, takes longer to grow and will probably lack the red plants that can add a nice splash of colour to a tank. The big advantage of these tanks is that they require much less maintenance and pruning the plants far less often. This option is also much cheaper!

High-light/tech -> You go the whole hog, get lots of light over the tank (1.5 to 2WPG or over) you pump CO2 into the tank so its kept at a stable 30ppm, you have a good plant substrate like eco-complete or the ADA aqua soils, you can grow pretty much anything you want, have a great carpet of glosso and lots of nice vibrant red colors. You dose ferts (including PO4 and NO3) daily, CO2 is essential to help stop algae and you need to maintain and prune the tank weekly if not more. The down side is the cost to set up and maintain this sort of tank, but the rewards can be truly amazing tanks.

Can I suggest you read the pinned Estimative Index article as that should provide you with an idea of what is required for high light tanks

Hope the above helps, I really think you need to work out how much you can spend and how willing you are to have a tank that demands your time and money, but rewards you better

Sam

Thanks Sam,

You've given me a lot to think about and your right, I need to decide what I want out of this tank plant wise. I'm thinking I may go the low-light/tech route, at least for now, as I'm fairly new to all this and porobaly will not have the time to maintain a high-light/tech tank of this size. Perhaps I'll try a high light setup with something smaller at some point to properly learn the ropes on.


Paul.

 

[Themuleous]

Yeh good idea if you add a decent plant substrate now, not only will it help your low-tech tank but its make it much easier to upgrade at a later date, as you don't have to strip the whole tank down! Adding more light, CO2, plants etc is much easier than replacing the substrate.

If you can afford it can I recommend eco-complete, Ive got it in both my planted tanks and it works wonders, even in low light, or you could try ADA aquasoil which is the best on the market but a little bit more expensive, Ive also heard good things about the tetra plant substrate, which is a cheaper option if money is tight

Keep us posted re your progress

Sam

 

[BrassMan]

Yeh good idea if you add a decent plant substrate now, not only will it help your low-tech tank but its make it much easier to upgrade at a later date, as you don't have to strip the whole tank down! Adding more light, CO2, plants etc is much easier than replacing the substrate.

If you can afford it can I recommend eco-complete, Ive got it in both my planted tanks and it works wonders, even in low light, or you could try ADA aquasoil which is the best on the market but a little bit more expensive, Ive also heard good things about the tetra plant substrate, which is a cheaper option if money is tight

Keep us posted re your progress

Sam

Thanks Sam,

I made a start yesterday pictures here

I went for laterite (was the only thing I could find localy) mixed with sand for the bottom 1/3rd of the substrate (approx 3kg laterite mixed with 25kg of sand) then I layed a further 50kg of sand on top of that, total depth 2-3 inches.

I'm of to get a few plants in a bit and will try and get the hardier species that do well in hard water. I've got a list from the "Encyclopedia Of Aquarium Plants" but it's going to be difficult as I've never yet been to an LFS that labels their plants, we'll see how it goes, in the long run I'll probably put an order in with somebody like Java Plants where I'll know exactly what I'm getting).

I'll post pictures once they are planted so you can tell me where I've gone wrong

Paul.

 

[BrassMan]

Well, I've got it planted (for now anyway), here's a picture...

I suspect I may have made many mistakes, please feel free to point them out

One question regarding CO2,

I have a spare Nutrifin yeast based CO2 kit which is good for tanks upto 75 ltrs (20 g), I know this is tiny compared to the size of the tank (1/5th) but is some CO2 better than no CO2? Or would this be a waste of time?

I also have a Bio System yeast based CO2 kit running on my 200ltr tank which I can move across if you think it will help which is rated for tanks up to 160 ltrs (40 gal)

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Paul.

 

[Themuleous]

I think the nutrafin yeast kit is going to make little different on your huge tank, yeast systems are always going to be tricky with such a huge tank, if you can get pressured it would make life easier

As to the plants you've made a good start, however I would make the following suggestions The two clumps of rotala in the front could probably do with going at the back as that plant will get tall very quickly, the same goes for the vals on the right which'll probably shade out the sword/ech plant in the back right corner prob best to move them before they get to established

Other than that its a promising start

Sam