Advice On Nano Set Up Please.

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Tooombsy

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Hi guys
 
I've always wanted to try my hand at keeping marine fish, but have never taken the plunge.
I keep tropical fish as when i first got a tank, setting up and running a marine tank sounded far too complicated.
I am considering getting a 30 litre cube tank, my main questions are:
 
What filtration system would be best?
How much live rock would i need?
How many small clown fish could i keep in a tank this size?
 
Many thanks guys
 
See here for some basic info on equipment/rock:
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/410541-marine-aquarium-faq/
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421015-common-marine-tank-equipment/
 
A good part of the reason why marine has a reputation as being difficult is down to lack of research. People will follow bad advice from inexperienced clerks or friends and inadvertently stack the odds against success: too small a tank with too many fish, trying to cut the wrong corners to save money, etc. That aspect of marine tanks is really no different from freshwater tanks, but the amount of money lost to common mistakes is often greater for marine systems. The other reason is that marine has a reputation as tough is that, when things do go wrong, it often snowballs fast enough that you don't have a lot of time to deal with it. My experience with many nano freshwater and saltwater tanks over the years is that the salt ones are far more prone to go unexpectedly into emergency mode in a short period of time, while the fresh tanks typically give a lot more time to notice problems and sort them out. More water volume buys you more of a buffer against rapid problems like that, so the rule is generally that you should get as big a tank as you can reasonably fit and afford (smaller is not necessarily cheaper long-term, particularly if things go wrong and you lose a lot of money on livestock). 30L is quite small by marine standards when considering how easy it is to keep the tank stable, so you would be far better off starting bigger. 
 
30L is also on the small side even for the smaller species of clowns. While some people do keep them in tiny tanks, it's not always great for the fish and is also a risky path to take with a first marine tank, since smaller is harder and having fish in a small tank (vs being invert-only) adds to that difficulty. You would be far better off with at least twice that volume and starting with something at least at the upper end of the nano range, more like 70L, both for stability reasons and since clowns do not stay the tiny size they are at most shops. The peaceful little clowns in crowded store tanks are immature; they will grow quite a lot and will also start to pair off and fight. Even in larger nanos, more than a single pair of clowns is asking for problems. You have to have a pretty large tank to safely keep more than a pair. If you start with two immature clowns, they will turn into a male/female pair with a territory, which will be most or all of the space in a nano as the fish grow.
 
Thanks are all of the info Donya :)
 
I dont have the space for a much bigger tank, i may be able to push it to a 45cm cube, if it is too small for clowns i'll just have some corals and maybe a few small colourful goby
 
45x45x45cm would be a much better starting volume, since that gives you ~90L. You could definitely put an ocellaris clown pair in that. It might seem strange, but there really is a world of difference in stability and stocking options between a volume ike 90L and the smaller 30L.
 
If you stick with the smaller 30L instead, corals and a single small goby is also a much better option for small spaces. Neon and sharknose gobies are worth a look if you go that direction. They're usually good eaters, which is a big plus since a lot of other small marine fish can be pretty finicky about food. I've currently got a small tank on my desk with one a neon goby and a few hermit crabs. While not the absolute easiest tank I've kept since it's so small (needs daily top-ups and tweaks to other things every couple of days), it's certainly been one of the more stable small tanks I've had since there's not much in it. My neon goby also happily eats flake and other prepared foods, which goes a long way to keeping waste accumulation in check in a small system. 
 
Great info provided already, but keep in mind he smaller the tank is, the harder it is to maintain.

As for the tank, I would say the 90L is fine for a clown pair and possibly something like a firefish goby as long as you have plenty of hiding spots.
 
Tooombsy said:
http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquarium-supplies/aquariums/interpet-aquariums/interpet-river-reef-led-aquariums/river-reef-led-aquarium-94-dark-grey.html
 
Was looking at possibly getting this, as it seems like an easy first time marine aquarium.
 
Anybody ever tried one of these?
 
Would it be big enough to house a pair of small clowns with some live rock and corals?
 
I haven't seen this tank specifically, but it looks very similar to a other all-in-one sorts of cubes that are popular for nanos. The lights on most kits usually aren't sufficient for corals that need loads of light (the really serious marine LEDs are also really expensive), but basic starter soft corals like kenya tree, mushrooms, most zoas, etc. would probably be fine with the stock lighting. Depending on exactly how you set up the tank, you may also need an additional, small circulation pump in the display part of the tank to keep good flow around the live rock even if there's already a pump from the back section.
 
Also, if you are going for a reef with corals, I would strongly advise against what's at the bottom of the tank listing about using tap water - it's far safer in the long run to use RO water, since water quality can be a real pain to maintain when using tap, particularly if you have hard water and/or measurable phosphates/nitrates.
 
Donya said:
http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquarium-supplies/aquariums/interpet-aquariums/interpet-river-reef-led-aquariums/river-reef-led-aquarium-94-dark-grey.html
 
Was looking at possibly getting this, as it seems like an easy first time marine aquarium.
 
Anybody ever tried one of these?
 
Would it be big enough to house a pair of small clowns with some live rock and corals?
 
I haven't seen this tank specifically, but it looks very similar to a other all-in-one sorts of cubes that are popular for nanos. The lights on most kits usually aren't sufficient for corals that need loads of light (the really serious marine LEDs are also really expensive), but basic starter soft corals like kenya tree, mushrooms, most zoas, etc. would probably be fine with the stock lighting. Depending on exactly how you set up the tank, you may also need an additional, small circulation pump in the display part of the tank to keep good flow around the live rock even if there's already a pump from the back section.
 
Also, if you are going for a reef with corals, I would strongly advise against what's at the bottom of the tank listing about using tap water - it's far safer in the long run to use RO water, since water quality can be a real pain to maintain when using tap, particularly if you have hard water and/or measurable phosphates/nitrates.
I only want easy soft corals in my first tank, will try the harder ones if I ever decide to go for a full set up in a larger tank.
As for the water, I will definitely use RO water, I use it in my tropical tank too as the water from my taps is ridiculously hard and high ph.
I've heard that it's best to add love rock rubble instead of the normal filter media, is this true or will the filter media provided be ok?
 
Live rubble is often preferable, but it depends on exactly what you need done in the tank, so you may still want some more standard media. For example, if you don't have a protein skimmer, it's a good idea to use some carbon, and it's often useful to have a small sponge prefilter before that to keep coarse gunk from clogging carbon so that it stays useful for longer. Any standard media like that needs managing weekly with water changes. If you use only rubble, you probably won't need any sponge before it. Sometimes rubble can also become clogged with gunk in some tanks, but usually it has enough small critters to stop that from happening.
 

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