Advice on High pH, low kH

[KatieMR]

Hi! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, if not please let me know! I am looking for some advice on how to handle very high pH with fairly low kH in my source water. I'm new to fish keeping, and one of the first things I read when researching it is that when you add water to the tank, the pH and the temperature should match what is in the tank. During my fishless cycle back in January, I noticed that my source water (conditioned tap) had a very high pH: higher than the API high pH test registers. However when I tested the tank water it was holding steady at about 7.8. I was concerned about adding water that was so drastically different from what was in the tank, so I bought a pH reducer and have been using that in my source water (I prepare it ahead of time and store it in 1 gallon water jugs, so it's ready when I need to do a water change). With the pH adjuster, I let the pH drop to about 7.4 and it has been consistently reading 7.4 ever since the beginning of February.

Fast forward a couple months (and add a betta fish). I've been doing more reading and I've seen a lot of people recommend not using chemicals to adjust pH and only doing it naturally or it will crash. I acquired a kH/gH test kit to get a better idea of what I need to do to adjust my water, and it seems like my kH is pretty low.

Isn't water with a high pH supposed to have a high kH too? My gH is higher, but still seems pretty low for such high pH. If the trick to lowering the pH naturally is lowering the kH, is there a minimum kH I should have? Will lowering the kH effect my moneywort? I am trying so hard to keep that thing alive! I definitely want to avoid having my tank crash, but I also don't want my fish to go into some kind of pH shock. Is it okay to keep using the pH reducer for this? I know bettas can adapt to a lot of different pH levels, but is it safe to add water that has such a high pH to a tank that is only 7.4? I know that it will eventually self-adjust, but I'm not sure how long it takes.

Additional tank info:

The tank is approx. 4 months; it has a filter, but no additional aeration, there is a heater that keeps it between 78-80, but it stays pretty close to 80 most of the time

Inhabitants: Female betta, 6 moneywort stems, and 3 mini marimo moss balls.

I'm changing the water once a week about 66% with conditioned tap water and substrate vacuuming.

I use Tetra AquaSafe water conditioner and Imaginarium pH reducer (it takes approximately 22 drops/gallon to get the water to the right pH which seems like a lot; like I said, crazy high pH at my house!).

For the plants, I use Seachem Flourish root tabs: there is a flourish root tab at the base of the moneywort, and there was another on the other side of the tank, where I had a different plant; that plant died, and I've tried to vacuum up as much of the root tab as I could, but there might be some more in there.

My substrate is just basic blue aquarium gravel, my filter has a small active carbon cartridge, and a filter pad over the intake to keep Chadashah from being sucked up against it. I'm not sure what in the tank would be causing the pH to lower so drastically!

Water Parameters
Tank:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
pH: 7.4
Hardness (GH): 196.9 ppm
Alkalinity (KH): 107.4 ppm

^These numbers are from last night. I do water changes on Saturdays; the first 4 have consistently remained the same between water changes; I'm not sure about the kH and gH, I have only had the test kit since yesterday. I do use the API liquid tests, not the strips.

Source water:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: ~5
pH: >8.8; too high for the API high pH test kit to measure.
Hardness (GH): 125.3
Alkalinity (KH): 71.6

 

[Avel1896]

Hello I'm more used to degree GH/KH.
So tank is :
12 dGH
6.5 dKH
pH 7.4
These seem nice to me.

You should forget API to prefer JBL drops or at least strips if proceeding this way :

 

[KatieMR]

Hello I'm more used to degree GH/KH.
So tank is :
12 dGH
6.5 dKH
pH 7.4
These seem nice to me.

You should forget API to prefer JBL drops or at least strips if proceeding this way :
View attachment 133957

Thank you for the reply. I will keep that company in mind!

I am not so much concerned with the current tank parameters, they are stable and within safe limits. I am more concerned about the difference between the stable tank pH and the source water pH, the amount of chemicals I have to use to bring them into alignment, and the long term consequences of the additives.

 

[Avel1896]

source water

Do you mean tap water ?

 

[StevenF]

Corrosion of water pipes is a big issue for water utilities. corrosion could make the water unsafe to drink or tast bad or look cloudy. to prevent corrosion most utilities increase the waterPH to prevent corrosion.

i would take a glass of your tap water and let is site a day and then recheck its parameters. The PH might drop after a day.or so. If so you can resolve your issue by filling a bucket of water and letting it site for a couple of days before using it for a water change. Putting a air stone in it to aureate and mix the water should also allow the PH and KH to stabilize. You can also precondition the water to prevent any concerns about chlorine.

your utility might be adding lime (calcium hydroxide) to your water. to increase the PH. Once exposed to air the calcium hydroxide react with CO2 in the air to form calcium carbonate. Calcium hydroxide can easily push the PH up to 8 or higher. Calcium carbonate will only push the PH up to about 7. This would easily explain the difference bewteen your tank and tap water.

Avel's warning about test strips can be ignored. He is assuming the reagents are toxic. Most are not in small amounts. furthermore the reagents are are dry and solid in the small square sponges of the strip and the strip is only in contact with the water for about 1/2 a second. The strip is only in the tank long enough to wet the sponges. The sponges then need several seconds to absorb the water and for the dry reagents to dissolve in the water to give you a result. So the strip isn't is not in contact with the water long enough to leach anything into the tank water. Also when you consider the size of the tank verses the size of the sponges and the amount of reagent they contain, Anything the strip leave in the water will only be present at a level of less than one partner trillion(1/0.000000001). At that level even mercury will not have any effect of any living organism. Yes liquid test kits are more accurate. but if you don't need high accuracy test strips are great to verify that everything is normal. I have used strips for years on my shrimp tank with no issues and my shrimp are breading.

 

[KatieMR]

Corrosion of water pipes is a big issue for water utilities. corrosion could make the water unsafe to drink or tast bad or look cloudy. to prevent corrosion most utilities increase the waterPH to prevent corrosion.

i would take a glass of your tap water and let is site a day and then recheck its parameters. The PH might drop after a day.or so. If so you can resolve your issue by filling a bucket of water and letting it site for a couple of days before using it for a water change. Putting a air stone in it to aureate and mix the water should also allow the PH and KH to stabilize. You can also precondition the water to prevent any concerns about chlorine.

your utility might be adding lime (calcium hydroxide) to your water. to increase the PH. Once exposed to air the calcium hydroxide react with CO2 in the air to form calcium carbonate. Calcium hydroxide can easily push the PH up to 8 or higher. Calcium carbonate will only push the PH up to about 7. This would easily explain the difference bewteen your tank and tap water.

Avel's warning about test strips can be ignored. He is assuming the reagents are toxic. Most are not in small amounts. furthermore the reagents are are dry and solid in the small square sponges of the strip and the strip is only in contact with the water for about 1/2 a second. The strip is only in the tank long enough to wet the sponges. The sponges then need several seconds to absorb the water and for the dry reagents to dissolve in the water to give you a result. So the strip isn't is not in contact with the water long enough to leach anything into the tank water. Also when you consider the size of the tank verses the size of the sponges and the amount of reagent they contain, Anything the strip leave in the water will only be present at a level of less than one partner trillion(1/0.000000001). At that level even mercury will not have any effect of any living organism. Yes liquid test kits are more accurate. but if you don't need high accuracy test strips are great to verify that everything is normal. I have used strips for years on my shrimp tank with no issues and my shrimp are breading.

Thank you, Steven! That information is helpful and just what I was looking for! I will try letting the water sit out and test it again. I'll keep you posted about what happens. Thanks again for the advice!

 

[KatieMR]

Do you mean tap water ?

Yes, I use tap water as the source water for refilling my tank.

 

[KatieMR]

Thought I'd give an update! @StevenF seems to have found the fix! I tried letting the water sit (not very effective) and aerating it, and voila, I have a pH of 7.4. Thanks for all the advice! I am so glad to have a non-chemical fix for that!

 

[Avel1896]

Hello @KatieMR yes, using tap water you need to let it sit 48 hours with no top to allow chlore and chloramine to evaporate on their own.

 

[KatieMR]

Hello @KatieMR yes, using tap water you need to let it sit 48 hours with no top to allow chlore and chloramine to evaporate on their own.

Thank you for your reply. I use water conditioner to treat for the chlorine/chloramine, so I am really much more concerned about the differences in pH at this point.

 

[Avel1896]

Thank you for your reply. I use water conditioner to treat for the chlorine/chloramine, so I am really much more concerned about the differences in pH at this point.

To lower pH you can waterchange with ROW, or CO2 injection or acid buffer.