1St Time 0Ppm - Next Step ?

[anon02]

After 12 days my filter has processed 5ppm ammonia down to 0 ppm in 24 hours, what should be my next step ?

Tia

 

[Gvilleguy]

Hi Tia,

Have your nitrite levels gone up, and then also down to zero? You want both ammonia and nitrites going to zero.

Regarding the ammonia, the rule of thumb is to continue feeding ammonia into the tank every 24 hours, and now measure the ammonia level every 12 hours. You want to get it to the point that the ammonia goes to zero within 12 hours, with zero nitrites showing up.

Thanks,
Greenville Guy

 

[OldMan47]

Your next step is clearly to keep feeding the tank with 5 ppm daily and watch your nitrite levels. Once those are also processing through in 24 hours, you can start testing at 12 hours. You have taken the first baby step toward having a cycled tank. Have you read through the fishless cycling thread yet? I have a link to it in my signature area.

 

[anon02]

Thanks for the replies GG and OM 47

I tested for nitrite, it went up from < 0.3 at the tap to 0.8, is this a significant rise ?

Am I right in thinking that I should test for nitrite at the same time as for ammonia i.e. before adding the 5 ppm ammonia ?

 

[anon02]

This evenings test showed ammonia down from 5 ppm to zero over 24 hours but the nitrite fell back to < 0.3 ppm

Drat !!!

 

[Gvilleguy]

Unless I have read something wrong here, you are doing fine. Your ammonia levels should continue to get to the point where they will drop to zero faster than 24 hours. Your nitrite level will eventually get to the point where it also falls to zero in the same time frame. It sounds to me that you are basically in phase II where you are continuing to feed your tank with ammonia, and you are awaiting nitrites to get to zero in the same time frame as the ammonia gets to zero. This can take some time.

When I was doing my cycle I would measure both ammonia and nitrite from the tank during my tests in this phase.

 

[anon02]

I haven`t been testing for nitrite on a regular basis, but on a hunch I`ve just tested for nitrAte and got over 100 ppm, so now I`m confused and wondering if the nitrite spike could have happened and I`ve missed it ?

Does anyone have any ideas whats going on ?

 

[waterdrop]

Well, you don't actually have enough data for us to be able to give a very reliable assessment of your stage of fishless cycling.

Was mature media used to help jump-start this fishless cycle? Or is it a staight standard fishless cycle starting only from tap water and a brand new set of filter media? This can make a huge difference in how one perceives what the results mean.

Without that info, the 3 bits of info conflict with each other a little in my mind. Saying the fishless cycle has been going 12 days makes me suspect you are still in phase one, waiting for the nitrite spike to begin. The report of only a slight rise in nitrite above tap level further supports the notion that you are in the first phase but near the end of it because nitrite is just starting but ammonia is now dropping to zero ppm within 24 hours. The 3rd bit of info, that nitrate is very high (100ppm?), is the conflicting bit, making me question whether mature media was present and there are possibly already a lot of N-Bacs, taking the nitrite from the newly developed A-Bacs and converting it on through to nitrate(NO3).

Overall, of course, everything is probably pretty good, as you are -doing- a fishless cycle in the first place and clearly things are happening, including some end-result nitrate!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[anon02]

Hi WD,

I did use previously matured filter and media but the previous owner had washed them out in tap water and left them for 4 days before I collected them

I am keeping a journal, but I`m only posting to the forum when I think that there is something significant happening to avoid information over load

I`m assuming that I should keep adding the 5ppm ammonia and start testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate 24 hourly to see what`s going on ?

 

[waterdrop]

Right, you do need to feed the bacterial colonies on the 24 hours basis if the ammonia has gone to zero, but you need to get a handle on where the cycling process really is. I remember your case now, with its special twist!

I'd recommend that you do a full, down-to-the-gravel gravel-clean-water-change and then recharge the ammonia dose to 5ppm, taking a full set of test results. Hopefully this will reset your nitrate down to a low level and you can then watch nitrite and nitrate on a daily basis, even a 12 hour basis on the times you get a chance. What you want to watch for is whether nitrate goes steadily upward and to what extent you see nitrite showing itself over time as the nitrate marches upward. This should help get at the question of whether you are still going to get significant nitrite spikes, which is the worry here if you go to fish too fast.

The main test still holds of course.. over the course of a week or two of tests, do both ammonia and nitrite(NO2) drop always back down to true zero ppm by 12 hours after the 5ppm dose of ammonia was administered. (noting that dosing only ever occurs on the 24 hour mark, never more frequently)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[anon02]

Thanks WD,
I got all of that, and I can see the sense in establishing where the filter is at at the moment

I shall drain down and refill with conditioned water (shame to lose that lovely aquarium smell though), and start testing all 3 parameters 24 hourly

When all that is done I will put a post up, (maybe of future use to someone in my position)

Appreciated

 

[anon02]

So last night I did a water change down to the gravel and refilled with conditioned water

This morning after 12 hours the test readings are
Ammonia = 0.25 ppm
Nitrite = 0.3 ppm
NitrAte = 25 ppm

So I would say we`re getting there ?

 

[waterdrop]

I'm assuming you recharged the ammonia back up to 5ppm after the water change?

If so, we see that the ammonia has dropped significantly in 12 hours, which is good.

The nitrite situation stays the same, we know its low but we don't know whether that means we are prior to the nitrite spike stage of cycling or post-spike because of the mature media leapfrogging us there. It will take many more days of data to see that more clearly.

How does that 25ppm nitrate(NO3) compare to your natural nitrate tap level?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[anon02]

I'm assuming you recharged the ammonia back up to 5ppm after the water change?

If so, we see that the ammonia has dropped significantly in 12 hours, which is good.

The nitrite situation stays the same, we know its low but we don't know whether that means we are prior to the nitrite spike stage of cycling or post-spike because of the mature media leapfrogging us there. It will take many more days of data to see that more clearly.

How does that 25ppm nitrate(NO3) compare to your natural nitrate tap level?

~~waterdrop~~

Hi WD,
Yes, I did recharge the ammonia
The nitrate level at the tap is 0 ppm

 

[waterdrop]

OK, I'm still not confident I have a full picture but I'm tending to think you may indeed have retained enough live N-Bacs from the previous life of the filter that your fishless cycle has leapfrogged past the nitrite spike stage and what we are now seeing are the type of numbers we'd expect in the 3rd phase of fishless cycle (the post nitrite spike stage) which is generally about a third of the fishless cycling process.

The name of the game here is to hope for double-zeros at 12 hours (both ammonia and nitrite dropping to true zero ppm prior to 12 hours after 5ppm of ammonia was dosed) so you can start your "qualifying week" (which just means watching it repeat that the better part of a week before you do the big water change and get fish. The problem that sometimes occurs in the third phase is when one or the other of ammonia or nitrite gets "stuck" showing a trace amount at your 12 hour test. Sometimes people have to wait ages for this to clear but it always finally goes away. During the third phase it can be a good idea to perform complete (down to the gravel) gravel-clean-water-changes with ammonia recharge on the weekends. This accomplishes two things: it gets most of the excess nitrate and nitrite out of there (they inhibit N-Bac growth) and it gives you practice with the everyday aspects of weekly freshwater tank maintenance, which you'll be doing for the life of the tank.

~~waterdrop~~