1-nil!

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I hope England play better (it really can't be any worse, can it? ) and I hope for Portugals sake, we don't get the ref they had yesterday :blink:

Arfie
 
I'm really not sure you could argue with many of the cards the ref waved last night. Both sets of players totally lost control - look to them and their managers for the blame IMO.
 
But whilst we're using the analogies like that, can you tell me (and I'll give you clues ;) ) the result the last time England played Germany (it was a world cup qualifyer in Munich Sept 1 2001)? How about the time before that (Euro 2000)?

For that matter, how about the last time we played the new "favourites" for the world cup, Argentina (a friendly on 12th November 2005)? Or maybe the previous time (2002 World Cup)?

Don't statistics rock :good: :lol:
Arfie
Statistics you want, statistics you get, name the last 2 international teams to win at Wembley before it was demolished? ;)
Oh, and you'll still be going on about the 5-1 defeat of Germany in 40 years time, like your media monkeys do about the one and only time you won the world cup :rolleyes:

Thats the difference between our 2 nations, we don't think it our divine right to win everything we enter.
Scotland suck big time, we know we suck big time but we still support them and have a good party win, lose (usually) or draw!! :good:

Here comes an off topic bit!!
How many Scottish/Irish/Welsh/Portugese/Brazilian/French/Japanese fans have you heard being arrested for causing trouble when following our national teams? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all of your fans are hooligans, but it seems to be a thing you can't get rid of. I know other countries have their hooligan elements too, Germany, Holland, Poland, Italy and Turkey have just as bad problems as England. You'll probably say theres provocation for the thugs behaviour, but I think the German authorities have been very lenient so far, they even let 2 fans off when they started the sieg heil salute thing, which is illegal in Germany, and still "fans" came back for more the next night.
What is it going to take to stop it, banning you from taking part in intenational games and tournaments?

I'm really not sure you could argue with many of the cards the ref waved last night. Both sets of players totally lost control - look to them and their managers for the blame IMO.
Terrible game, which was spoiled by the ref dishing way too many cards (warranted or otherwise), but at least Graham Poll is out of the limelight now after his shocker of a game :lol:
 
Oh, and you'll still be going on about the 5-1 defeat of Germany in 40 years time, like your media monkeys do about the one and only time you won the world cup :rolleyes:

Of course :D until something better happens!

Thats the difference between our 2 nations, we don't think it our divine right to win everything we enter.

You mean we've got ambition ;)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all of your fans are hooligans, but it seems to be a thing you can't get rid of. I know other countries have their hooligan elements too, Germany, Holland, Poland, Italy and Turkey have just as bad problems as England.

Can't argue with this one actually. It's strange, how the media and official reaction depends very much on the received wisdom of the time, and the way the bandwagon is rolling. The stories are written before the tournaments start. A few years ago, any, ANY, trouble involving England fans would have been a major scandal, with calls from the Prime Minister down to bring the team home. Nowadays, football is trendy, and so any trouble was going to be written off as a few hard core hooligans, and gets brushed under the carpet. The truth is that not much has changed in the behaviour of fans, which was never as bad as it was made out to be before, nor as saintly as you'd think from reading about it now.

What is it going to take to stop it, banning you from taking part in intenational games and tournaments?

Wouldn't make much difference. Well, I suppose if the team wasn't there the fans wouldn't be, but I mean the big problem is the attitude of the English drinker. Binge drinking and its associated casual violence and indifference to other people's rights are a feature of most English towns and cities on weekend nights, and it's one of our less savoury exports.
 
Thats the difference between our 2 nations, we don't think it our divine right to win everything we enter.
Scotland suck big time, we know we suck big time but we still support them and have a good party win, lose (usually) or draw!! :good:

No the difference is, we have a squad capable, you don't. The other difference is that most English fans will wish Scotland/Wales and Ireland (north & republic) well when they are not our direct opposition, you however are bitter and twisted and will support anyone who isn't English ;)

Here comes an off topic bit!!
How many Scottish/Irish/Welsh/Portugese/Brazilian/French/Japanese fans have you heard being arrested for causing trouble when following our national teams? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all of your fans are hooligans, but it seems to be a thing you can't get rid of. I know other countries have their hooligan elements too, Germany, Holland, Poland, Italy and Turkey have just as bad problems as England. You'll probably say theres provocation for the thugs behaviour, but I think the German authorities have been very lenient so far, they even let 2 fans off when they started the sieg heil salute thing, which is illegal in Germany, and still "fans" came back for more the next night.

Lets get things right here, they don't report all trouble from all other countries over here, cos hearing that for example Aussie fans are rioting is not newsworthy in the UK, see HERE 9 arrested in Australia. Did you see the actual footage of the other night with the fans throwing bottles? You could actually see germans throwing them over the police lines at English fans, yet only 2 were arrested vs 300 English fans, how's that work then? Even the german police said it was a 50/50 thing, but arrested 2/300 :S Yes English fans get into more trouble, for 2 main reasons - 1 they drink too much and cant hold their drink and 2 - Opposition fans KNOW that they will fight back if provoked. The police just move in and arrest loads of fans in one go, guilty or not, sweep them all up, then release them all next day without charge. If you want the view of a Scottish reporter, try Nicky Campbell's article in the Guardian (not linking to it as it has swearing in)
"The English fans have been magnificent. If they were wearing Jock fright wigs and ill-fitting kilts or Celtic tops and tricolours we would be wishing the English could only be more like them."

And of course lets not forget the "braveheart" fan who recently attacked a 7 year old boy playing football in the park with his dad wearing an England shirt, 7 years old and punched by a man in his 20's wearing a Rangers shirt :huh: . Or the courageous Scots who dragged a disabled man out of his car and gave him a beating for daring to have a St Georges cross on his car :blink: . You see, sometimes people from YOUR country do things which you are not proud, but should it relect on the whole country? I for one don't think all scottish fans are like this, in fact I KNOW it, I had a great time at Anfield with Celtic fans on a couple of occasions.

I am however dreading an England vs Germany match (assuming they beat Argentina and we get past Portugal) because you just know the "banter" will end up getting violent.

What is it going to take to stop it, banning you from taking part in intenational games and tournaments?
Yeah maybe banning England fans from away games is the answer, but then the tens of thousands who aren't any problem get penalised. Still if they did ban us, there'd be one more place for Scotland to not get in :lol:

And of course we'll be going on about the 5:1 for years to come, we beat one of our bitterest rivals conclusively on their own ground. Of course Scots never mention the 1:0 win they had at Wembley ;) and still failing to get into the Euros at that :p

Arfie
 
And of course lets not forget the "braveheart" fan who recently attacked a 7 year old boy playing football in the park with his dad wearing an England shirt, 7 years old and punched by a man in his 20's wearing a Rangers shirt :huh: . Or the courageous Scots who dragged a disabled man out of his car and gave him a beating for daring to have a St Georges cross on his car :blink: . You see, sometimes people from YOUR country do things which you are not proud, but should it relect on the whole country? I for one don't think all scottish fans are like this, in fact I KNOW it, I had a great time at Anfield with Celtic fans on a couple of occasions.
Arfie
Arfie,
Not one person I have spoken to wouldn't give the idiots who did that a good hiding, attacking people for wearing england tops/flying flags (or any other nationality) is just wrong.
The "man" who hit the wee boy was wearing a rangers top as you pointed out, but they are known for not having too many braincells and being one step up from pond scum!!
Your right, sometimes scottish people do things like this, unlike fans from YOUR country who do it regularly.
I have experienced it myself when visiting relatives in Colchester, with my wee boy and wife, just because someone heard my accent. I can see it from both sides, but I will never condone or accept it.
As for having a great time with the celtic fans, try going to an old firm match and you'll see a different side to them. As long as the "bigot brothers" are in Scottish football, there'll always be problems when they meet.
 
Arfie,
Not one person I have spoken to wouldn't give the idiots who did that a good hiding, attacking people for wearing england tops/flying flags (or any other nationality) is just wrong.
Quite right and no implication otherwise mate, just highlighting the piont, it happens everywhere.

Your right, sometimes scottish people do things like this, unlike fans from YOUR country who do it regularly.
It happends when we are in big tournaments and as we are in big tournaments regularly, it's the reason it happens regularly, your pretty much never in them, hence it can't happen :p But even being anti-English surely you have to admit, that English fans are now targetted by both opposition and police, entirely based on reputation. and for the record as at Saturday night: "There have been more than 4000 arrests so far but only 257 have been English." Granted that's now doubled, but puts it in perspective, if you take what we see on the TV, there's been no other arrests for other nationalities. also of 378 "detained" before the Ecuador game, only 3 are to be charged, many were preventative arrests, so not even doing anything wrong, just arrested "just in case" they did (good thing too).

Don't get me wrong, I don't condone it :no: in fact I'd like to see more morons arrested and charged, but lets have some balance, you are making England out to be the world centre of violence, when worse than it should be it's not as bad as gets reported.

I have experienced it myself when visiting relatives in Colchester, with my wee boy and wife, just because someone heard my accent. I can see it from both sides, but I will never condone or accept it.
Me either it's ridiculous. My mates had to have their jackets dry cleaned after a night out in Glasgow to remove all the phlem :sick: where there is alchohol and large gatherings of morons from opposing "tribes" be they clubs or nations, this happens. But I don't tar all the Scots with the same brush, idiots are idiots regarless of place of birth.

As for having a great time with the celtic fans, try going to an old firm match and you'll see a different side to them. As long as the "bigot brothers" are in Scottish football, there'll always be problems when they meet.
Would love to go, just not practical for me to.

Enjoy the rest of the World Cup, I guess you're a Portugal supporter now, must be difficult supporting 4 other teams so far and them all failing as well just like Scotland do :p Who do you support for the rest of the tournament IF England go out ? or do you also lose interest in it then ? :lol:

Arfie
 
But even being anti-English surely you have to admit, that English fans are now targetted by both opposition and police, entirely based on reputation. and for the record as at Saturday night: "There have been more than 4000 arrests so far but only 257 have been English." Granted that's now doubled, but puts it in perspective, if you take what we see on the TV, there's been no other arrests for other nationalities. also of 378 "detained" before the Ecuador game, only 3 are to be charged, many were preventative arrests, so not even doing anything wrong, just arrested "just in case" they did (good thing too).


Enjoy the rest of the World Cup, I guess you're a Portugal supporter now, must be difficult supporting 4 other teams so far and them all failing as well just like Scotland do :p Who do you support for the rest of the tournament IF England go out ? or do you also lose interest in it then ? :lol:

Arfie
Arfie,
There you go with your stats again :rolleyes: I thought it was more like 700 English fans had been detained (so far)?
I'm not anti english, I just don't like the way the press stir up a frenzy of excitement before every game, and the worst thing about it is, people fall for it every time.

As for the World Cup, I am supporting Germany, as I usually do, because my wife is German and as you have so often pointed out, Scotland never qualified AGAIN!! I think whoever wins the game between Germany and Argentina will go on to lift the trophy.
I don't like the Portugese team, bunch of cheating diving bleeps, but the same can be said about a few teams, look at Thierry Henry tonight, the Italian player last night or Adriano earlier today. The sooner video evidence is brought into play, the better, even if its after the game has finished, Luis Figo should be banned for the next game against England at least, if not sent home in disgrace, as could a lot of other players.
I have to admit England seem to be playing fair mostly, apart from the Crouch goal where he had a handful of the defenders hair that is ;)
 

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