Why We Should Not Fishless Cycle Planted Tanks.

[lljdma06]

I'm thinking of adding a few realplants to my tank, am setting up another, and was thinking about planting that one a bit more heavily, the nature of not cycling the same as a non planted tank intrigues me.

is there an article anywhere focusing more on the no-cycle aspects of planted tanks?

(btw, it'll be a low tech,relatively low light, but I will upgrade lights n stuff, just not going to throw all the current fittings on the tank just for better bulbs, too much work)

Did you ever get it started? I've been successful with mine and on 6 weeks. If you want to go planted then maybe you should give this place a try since they don't appear hostile if you go fish-in.

Sorry, I usually do not like removing links, but in this case I think this forum has plenty topics and information to get your feet wet in this aspect of the hobby. I don't mind linking to other forums if it deals with a very specific, advanced topic in Planted tanks. Thank you for your understanding.

In this planted section, we are fine with fish-in, so I'm not quite getting why you're getting that hostile vibe. Perhaps from another section that doesn't involve plants? Many of us do not cycle tanks in the same way, and I haven't personally cycled a tank in over 5 years. The fish go in when I can afford to pay for them.

llj

 

[FISH-FRY]

I'm thinking of adding a few realplants to my tank, am setting up another, and was thinking about planting that one a bit more heavily, the nature of not cycling the same as a non planted tank intrigues me.

is there an article anywhere focusing more on the no-cycle aspects of planted tanks?

(btw, it'll be a low tech,relatively low light, but I will upgrade lights n stuff, just not going to throw all the current fittings on the tank just for better bulbs, too much work)

Did you ever get it started? I've been successful with mine and on 6 weeks. If you want to go planted then maybe you should give this place a try since they don't appear hostile if you go fish-in.

Sorry, I usually do not like removing links, but in this case I think this forum has plenty topics and information to get your feet wet in this aspect of the hobby. I don't mind linking to other forums if it deals with a very specific, advanced topic in Planted tanks. Thank you for your understanding.

In this planted section, we are fine with fish-in, so I'm not quite getting why you're getting that hostile vibe. Perhaps from another section that doesn't involve plants? Many of us do not cycle tanks in the same way, and I haven't personally cycled a tank in over 5 years. The fish go in when I can afford to pay for them.

llj

Okay on the edit and noticed that under the General Rules section. I've run across some helpful folks here along with some mods.

I was looking for a sign on the door that said fishless cycled tanks only and didn't see one. There are some hypocrites preaching fishless cycles because one will be shortening the life of fish blah, blah, blah. When one of the kool-aid drinkers kills fish after fish then it's okay because it was a learning experience or some other lame excuse, but at least they did a fishless cycle.

Oh, this is one of the reasons I'm babbling. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/324833-not-another-fishless-cycle/ I'm just ignoring it for now as none of them deserve a response since it will be a total waste of my time.

 

[lljdma06]

Okay on the edit and noticed that under the General Rules section. I've run across some helpful folks here along with some mods.

I was looking for a sign on the door that said fishless cycled tanks only and didn't see one. There are some hypocrites preaching fishless cycles because one will be shortening the life of fish blah, blah, blah. When one of the kool-aid drinkers kills fish after fish then it's okay because it was a learning experience or some other lame excuse, but at least they did a fishless cycle.

Oh, this is one of the reasons I'm babbling. http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/324833-not-another-fishless-cycle/ I'm just ignoring it for now as none of them deserve a response since it will be a total waste of my time.

Oh, these people don't understand what planted people do and would have a cow if I showed up in that thread. Ignoring it is the best thing, rather than getting riled up and potentially be disciplined.

Nice tank, by the way. A little on the lightly planted side to have "silent" cycle", the tank should really be densly planted for it to work. The silent cycle is mostly for CO2 injected tanks. You can get a non-CO2 tank to work as well, but you have to sacrifice CO2 stability for ammonia control in the first couple months of the tank's life and also plant very densly. So basically you change the water more often. Once the tank has matured, you worry more about CO2 stability and you then reduce your waterchanges to get stable low levels of CO2 in the non-injected tank.

Am I making any sense? it is awefully early and I have not met my caffeine quota yet.

 

[Dave Spencer]

Did you ever get it started? I've been successful with mine and on 6 weeks. If you want to go planted then maybe you should give this place a try since they don't appear hostile if you go fish-in.

There is still an “old school” that rant on about excess nitrates and or phosphates causing algae, baulk at 50% water changes, water should be tested daily etc, etc, blah, blah, blah…… These people never have and never will understand planted tanks.

Now there is a “new wave” of “old school” who peddle fishless cycling in all circumstances. Whilst this is the way to go in non planted, most of them are too high on their sense of self satisfaction because they are the only ones who care about fish because they are the only ones who fishless cycle, to ever consider other aspects of the hobby where adding ammonia is detrimental to cycling the tank. Just like the phosphate haters of old, the new wave represents a barrier that is a pointless climb.

If you want advice on starting planted tanks, when to add stock etc, stick to forums specifically for planted tanks.

Dave.

 

[lljdma06]

If you want advice on starting planted tanks, when to add stock etc, stick to forums specifically for planted tanks.

Dave.

Or subforums within a general forum that deal specifically with planted tanks. Hmmm, especially ones run by opera singers. Hmmm, wonder where that could be?

 

[ian]

Paverotti has his own sub forum!

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

I would really appreciate some clarification of this method of colonising a new tank. Here are a few facts about my setup

• Juwel Rio 240
• 1cm Deponitmix under 5-10cm Congo sand
• 3 moderate sized pieces of bogwood (~4"x24"), boiling water poured on them and then left soaking in bath for 3 days (no substantial tannin leaking now in tank)
• 108W T5 Juwel lighting, making this a "low light" setup? (~1.75W per gallon)
• Tap water is alkaline (~8.1 now it is de-chlorinated) and hard (14.5 on scale if I've calculated things correctly)
• In addition to Juwel 1000 pump, intending to buy aditional powerhead for a decent river current that will give active fish a workout, so plants need to be happy with flow
• No current plans to use CO2 pump... Bad history with plants, although 4 month old cactii are still alive!

So, I plan to go and buy some hardy, low light and fast growing (if possible) plants today, to cover most of the sand and the bogwood.

1. What sort of timeframe am I looking at before I can add some fish?
2. Would ~6" of fish be a safe limit for the first guys?

 

[SuperColey1]

To all those myth spreaders and sooth sayers:

I put fish in as soon as the water is up to temperature!!!!
I have not done a water change for 8 months!!!!
I add nitrate and phosphate if I need to and will add excess if I want to!!!!
I will add CO2 to a very high level without fear of killing fish!!!!
I have nearly 20x the tank volume in circulation without fear of blowing fish away!!!!
I use excessively low amounts of light to achieve heavy growth!!!!
My fine sand substrate is over 3 years old and is not cleaned or stirred!!!!
I ignore the 'tolerant temperatures' that are given for each particular fish. Between 22 and 28 suits all the fish I ever had

I am sure there are more, but the point that this post was making is:

There are rules that are suggested. They can be quite useful to follow BUT it is not a 1 rule suits all scenario. Once you go from a 'decorative' tank to a planted tank You have changed the system. You have added natural filtration. You have probably just given your fish an environment that they will love more and more.

In essence read the articles, look into things with open mind and sort the myth from the reality. Take the rule but then research if it applies to your setup. Thats how most of us in planted learnt that the majority were wrong. That they had transferred a rule from 1 setup to all other setups.

Rant over

AC

 

[lljdma06]

To all those myth spreaders and sooth sayers:

I put fish in as soon as the water is up to temperature!!!!
I have not done a water change for 8 months!!!!
I add nitrate and phosphate if I need to and will add excess if I want to!!!!
I will add CO2 to a very high level without fear of killing fish!!!!
I have nearly 20x the tank volume in circulation without fear of blowing fish away!!!!
I use excessively low amounts of light to achieve heavy growth!!!!
My substrate is over 3 years old and is not cleaned or stirred!!!!
I ignore the 'tolerant temperatures' that are given for each particular fish. Between 22 and 28 suits all the fish I ever had

I am sure there are more, but the point that this post was making is:

There are rules that are suggested. They can be quite useful to follow BUT it is not a 1 rule suits all scenario. Once you go from a 'decorative' tank to a planted tank You have changed the system. You have added natural filtration. You have problem just given your fish an environment that they will love more and more.

In essence read the articles, look into things with open mind and sort the myth from the reality. Take the rule but then research if it applies to your setup. Thats how most of us in planted learnt that the majority were wrong. That they had transferred a rule from 1 setup to all other setups.

Rant over

AC

Why are you ranting here? We have always been on the same page. A good rant, though and a good summary of the Planted "principles".

llj

 

[ian]

love it Supercoley!

just don't show this to the 'new freshwater tank' section.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

• Since my earlier post, I now have bought a Dennerle CO2 system, which has been running for 3 days.
• The pH has dropped from 8.1 to 7.2, from the CO2
• Nitrates are "sky high" (110), presumeably from adding some Dennerle "s7" fertilizer on Sunday
• Nitrites are 0.3 to 0.8
• Ammonia is 0 to 0.1 (been adding fish food most days)

How long would you recommend I let the plants settle in before doing a water change and then adding some Zebra Danios? Would this coming Thursday or Sunday be too soon, or should I wait another week to let the plants absorb all the nutrients from that fertilizer dose (there is ~1cm Deponitmix under the sand also)?

 

[ian]

are those test results from today or Sunday?

ya know adding ferts can give wrong test results, what kit are you using?

 

[nwzzz]

Ok, this is my situation. I just started a new 29g tank with a flourite base and sand on top. I have 3 pieces of driftwood from my previous tank, which failed due to the diseased fish I bought from my local petstore. Never again. I cleaned them. The rest are Aquaclear 70 filter, 150W heater, and 18000k 20W light(changing it to 4200k 20W as soon as it arrives). I also ordered Java Moss online, a 6"x6" piece.

I haven't added any fish yet and I want to start an angelfish tank. After doing some research online, I find more articles suggesting fish-in cycling rather than fish-less but a few ppl on this forum suggested fish-less. Thus, my questions are,

1. Is it possible to do fish-less with the java moss I bought.
2. Or should I put in the java moss and add some hardy fish, if so which hardy fish? as I still don't have a good answer for this
3. Or put the java moss in a jar and finish fish-less and then add it back in? (no-no according to this article)
4. If I start with just java moss, should I remove the ammonia filter medium, but keep the carbon, sponge, and biomax?

[Edit: A petstore not too far from my house, a very well recommend one by the aquarists here I recently met, are having a sale on their plants. Since I want a planted tank, should I add more plants? The answer seems will be an obvious Yes and I will look into good starter plants. And if I do, should I keep the ammonia remover in my filter? but keep the biomax, carbon and sponge?]

I think that's it for now, though I have a lot more questions but since some of them might disappear when these are answered, I'll wait. Thanks.

[Edit: I also just found out that to rebuild the freshwater angelfish habitat, the plants require high light. Therefore, I should go with Power Compact 65W 6700K. Are there other options?]

P.S. : By hardy fish I mean fishes that are fairly colorful, unlike Silver Dollars, and not as much as Ram Cichlids, but ones that I want in my tank in the long run.

-Wasif

 

[FishyWishie]

love it Supercoley!just don't show this to the 'new freshwater tank' section.

Seems to be a lot of this kind of attitude I thought this was one forum and not each section trying to be top dog ?

 

[PDSimon]

The planted guys think they've got it all sorted out