What Are The Differences Between Altums And Scalare Angels?

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mattlee

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ive decided to get another angel as i lost one this week due to a good beating from another angel.... in one of my lfs they have smallish angels labelled up as altums but having never owned or even seen one close up i dont think!, i wouldnt know where to begin with the differences. the angels are more expensive by quite a bit and i dont want to buy them and spend top prices on them if theyre not what they say they are.
also will they be ok with scalares? do they need any special treatment?
 
Altum angels are a different species altogether. regular angelfish are Pterophyllum scalare, whereas true altums are Pterophyllum altum. your LFS may have "Peruvian Altums", which are still Pterophyllum scalare but look slightly different...these are NOT true altums. you really need to ask where they got them from. they should tell you they were imported from venezuela or colombia. they should sell for $20 or so for tiny babies, $35 or so for quarter sized fish, and up from there. they are expensive fish because they aren't mass-bred in farms but rather almost 99% of them are imported from the wild, if not 100% of them!

things to look for to tell apart would be fin height. altums have very high fins (hence their name), compared to regular angelfish.
altum3.jpg


that's a juvenile altum. you can tell 1) very tall fins in proportion to their body size, and 2) notch above the nose that is typical of altums.

depending on the size they have them at the store they may be difficult to tell. can you get pictures?


altums also have different water requirements. ideally they should be kept in very soft and very acidic water. however some people have managed to keep them in harder water. i keep one altum in medium hard water at 7.2ph or so, and I consider myself lucky that it's doing so well! ask your LFS what water the fish are being kept in to make sure you can add them to your tank right away, otherwise you have to acclimate them to your tank's pH.

also keep in mind that provided it manages to survive, it will grow bigger than regular angels and will also be more aggressive.

though they are beautiful fish, i wouldn't recommend them to a novice as they may not last. the most difficult part with altums is the first 1-2 months. i had mine in a tank all to itself, with lower ph, feeding it only live blackworms, and caring for it like a newborn baby. it's frankly too much work unless you REALLY want one!

good luck!



ive decided to get another angel as i lost one this week due to a good beating from another angel.... in one of my lfs they have smallish angels labelled up as altums but having never owned or even seen one close up i dont think!, i wouldnt know where to begin with the differences. the angels are more expensive by quite a bit and i dont want to buy them and spend top prices on them if theyre not what they say they are.
also will they be ok with scalares? do they need any special treatment?
 
I kept a solo one with some Discus, Rams and Cardinals years ago, i had him for about 5 years...was very big, never touched the cardinals and never bothered the Discus (more the other way round)

Then during a house party somebody thought it would be hilarious to por Domestos (Bleach) into my tank...which killed pretty much everything..i quickly ran a bath put the strugglers in (that wasent dead) the Altum, 1 Discus and about 3 corys survived but died a few days later.

I got him arrested for it but the police let him go without charge as they said its not a serious matter of criminal damage!

But anyway..i found him pretty hardy (the Altum)
 
they were deffo true altums and were £20 each and just bigger than a 50p piece.... i decided not yo get some as my ph is about 8 at the minute and water is hard so i dont think it would be fair on the fish! they were beautifull and still available at maidenhead in stapleton near hinckley i think they had 5 left.
 
I kept a solo one with some Discus, Rams and Cardinals years ago, i had him for about 5 years...was very big, never touched the cardinals and never bothered the Discus (more the other way round)

Then during a house party somebody thought it would be hilarious to por Domestos (Bleach) into my tank...which killed pretty much everything..i quickly ran a bath put the strugglers in (that wasent dead) the Altum, 1 Discus and about 3 corys survived but died a few days later.

I got him arrested for it but the police let him go without charge as they said its not a serious matter of criminal damage!

But anyway..i found him pretty hardy (the Altum)

that is absolutely shocking!!!!!
 
i didn't think that altums had been bred before in captivity? or if they have, not very many! i would have thought you wouldn't find small true altums in very many fish stores in the uk.
they are all wild caught and there fore 99% of the time are sub-adult - adult fish.
 
My local Maidenhead (Wellington, near Taunton, Somerset) has lots of Altum x Scarlare hybrids in...about 50p size...with wild colours (silver with feint black stripes) at £20 each...are you sure they are not from the same batch?

A hybrid may sound bad but i bet they are alot more hardy than a standard Altum and don't look much different.
 
i didn't think that altums had been bred before in captivity? or if they have, not very many! i would have thought you wouldn't find small true altums in very many fish stores in the uk.
they are all wild caught and there fore 99% of the time are sub-adult - adult fish.

it was my understanding that the latest imports (08-09) have been progressing towards younger and younger fish, with a higher success rate than the sub-adults previously imported. in his case it could be a peruvian cross as mentioned, it's difficult to know for sure i guess!
 
I got him arrested for it but the police let him go without charge as they said its not a serious matter of criminal damage!
maybe they should ahve went with animal cruelty or whatever it is. apparently its a precursor to murder
 
My local Maidenhead (Wellington, near Taunton, Somerset) has lots of Altum x Scarlare hybrids in...about 50p size...with wild colours (silver with feint black stripes) at £20 each...are you sure they are not from the same batch?

A hybrid may sound bad but i bet they are alot more hardy than a standard Altum and don't look much different.
they looked identical to the pic posted above by trojannemo, why is there so much disbelief that they were altums? the guys in the shop know their stuff n i trust them, they did say it was extremely rare to get these in and they told me not to buy them unless i had soft acidic water and to treat them in many ways like discus. i have hard alkaline water so left them there....
 
Its not that i don't believe you, its just the fact that 99% of Altums you see in chain LFS's like Maidenheads etc are Hybrids.

The ones i saw in my Maidenhead that matched your description also looked liek that picture...its hard to spot the diff between Altums and Altum x Scarlare Hybrids until they are Adult.
 

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