Water levels and looking fish.

[JiminyCricket]

Hi, so the last week I've lost 4 mollies and 1 platty and 1 paradise gourami. My other 3 paradise aren't looking so good either!
I now have 2 cherry barbs, 2 silver sharks, 2 pepper cory, 3 paradise, golden nugget, rusty plec and a stripped Raphael.

I've done water changes, and tested the water and today my KH is REALLY low!

Here are my levels
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ph 7
Kh 1dh
Gh 9dh

The kh and gh test are the ones that you add a drop until it changes colour 1 drop equals 1dh.

Is the KH being low the reason I'm loosing fish? How can I adjust these before I loose any more?

 

[Colin_T]

Mollies need hard alkaline water so a very low GH and KH might have contributed to their death.

Platies need moderately hard water with a neutral to slightly alkaline pH and should be fine in water with a GH of 9dh (about 150ppm).

Paradise fish come from soft acid water but are tolerant of harder more alkaline water and it is unlikely the GH or KH had anything to do with it dying.

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Losing 6 fishes from 3 different species in one week would indicate a disease, poison or water quality issue. Your water test would suggest water quality is not the cause, leaving us with poisoning or disease. You have catfish in the tank and if there was poison I would expect them to die. Leaving us with a disease.

Check the fish for clamped fins, heavy breathing or a white/ cream discolouration to their bodies. If any fish show these symptoms then photograph or video them and post here.

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If you want to increase the GH and KH then get some Rift Lake water conditioner and use it at 1/4 strength. You can also buy KH tables but they are more expensive than Rift Lake conditioner. However, the Rift Lake conditioner will raise the pH.

 

[JiminyCricket]

Thanks for the reply, no sign of disease on any fish, all look really healthy other than the paradise.

I went to the LFS and they were stumped too. I've got some powder to help raise the KH...
I'm at a total loss!

 

[Colin_T]

Did you get all the fish from the same place?

How long did you have the mollies, platy and paradise fish for before they died?

What did the mollies & platy look like when they died, did they do anything unusual when dying?

When you do water changes, do you have a fish only bucket that is used for the fish and nothing else, or do you use any bucket in the house?

Do you use a water conditioner/ dechlorinator when you do water changes?
If yes, what do you use and how do you use it?

Make sure you don't use any hair spray, perfume, deodorant, bug spray, air fresheners, smoke or paint in the room. And don't use moisturising cream on your hands before doing anything in the tank. And avoid using perfumed soap before working on the tank or feeding the fish.

What are you feeding the fish, and how often do you feed them?

 

[Essjay]

KH does not have a direct effect on fish. It can affect the fish indirectly through the pH. If KH is low, there is the potential for the pH to drop very low quite quickly. As long as your tank pH is stable, your low KH is not affecting the fish.

The parameter that does affect fish directly is GH not KH. As Colin pointed out, some fish such as mollies need a high GH, while others (particularly wild caught soft water fish) need a low GH

 

[JiminyCricket]

Fish came from a few different places, had them roughly 6 months. Other than one paradise having a swollen belly, they have spent a day at the top a day at the bottom and then die over night.

I don't use perfumes/moisturisers so don't think that's the issue.

Water changes are done weekly and use water life tap safe. I have a bucket just used for the fish and add the tap safe to the bucket before adding to the tank. Gravel is siphoned too.

They get fed pellets and flakes every other day.

 

[Colin_T]

The livebearers definitely had a different issue to the paradise fish.

If the fish didn't show any symptoms besides suddenly spending time at the surface or bottom of the tank, and dying 24 hours later, it would probably be an internal infection which has caused massive internal damage. Fish normally bloat up when this happens but not always.

 

[JiminyCricket]

Thank for your help, would the infections be caused by anything I have/haven't done?
Hopefully the rest of the fish will be ok and I can restock in a few weeks.

 

[Byron]

There is something else to consider...no mention is made of the tank size, and you have fish species that should not be combined, especially in smallish tanks, and shoaling species that need a group. All of this can factor into stress, causing further weakening and other disease.

Please do not even consider adding more/new fish until you know exactly what the problem is. And avoid any species requiring moderately hard or harder water, such as all livebearers. But even when the deaths stop, there are critical issues with the fish remaining in terms of suitability and numbers that must first be resolved. Depending upon the tank dimensions/volume, some of these may have to be re-homed, or some added to.

 

[JiminyCricket]

Tank size is 180l

What fish aren't compatable?

I wouldn't consider adding any more until it's sorted, I'm just hoping that'll be a few weeks!

 

[Byron]

Colin mentioned the livebearers (mollies and platies) needing harder water, and as you have lost them (quite possibly because of this, after four-five months the lack of mineral would be significant) don't consider more. Soft water species are OK, which brings us to the remaining species.

Silver shark I assume refers to the barb Balantiocheilos melanopterus which requires a group of at least five (they develop an hierarchy and fewer will mean highly stressed fish leading to death), but they will attain 30-35 cm (12+ inches) and need significantly larger tank. They will also eat smaller fish (the cherry barbs for example) and their swimming activity makes them unsuitable for sedate fish (like the paradise and other gourami, etc). This fish needs to be re-homed. More data here:
http://seriouslyfish.com/species/Balantiocheilos-melanopterus/

Paradise fish. Presumably the species Macropodus opercularis. This species has some special requirements, including slightly cooler water than many "tropicals," which would suit the cories fine too. Tank length/width is important if more than one or a pair. Rather than my going into the needs:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/macropodus-opercularis/

Platydoras armatulus is presumably the striped Raphael, and it is not a small fish, so tank length needs to be in the 4-foot range. More here:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/platydoras-armatulus/

The cories need a group of five or six minimum, more is always better and they are very social and will be less stressed and thus much healthier with a decent-sized group. I don't know if the Raphael might try to eat them, but given their defense mechanism (pectoral fin spines highly poisoned) he would only try once and be dead. Personally I would not combine them.

 

[JiminyCricket]

Ok, I'm feeling like a bit of an idiot after taking advice from the local fish stores!

So basically none if my fish should be together?

Although I don't watch them 24/7 I haven't seen any signs of bullying between the fish. The corys certainly aren't bothered by the Rapheal.

The test kit I previously had didn't show KH or GH readings so I was unaware of the soft water.

I'm not planning on adding any fish for awhile, so will let it all settle down and do some more research.

Thanks for all the help and advice!

 

[Byron]

Ok, I'm feeling like a bit of an idiot after taking advice from the local fish stores!

So basically none if my fish should be together?

Although I don't watch them 24/7 I haven't seen any signs of bullying between the fish. The corys certainly aren't bothered by the Rapheal.

The test kit I previously had didn't show KH or GH readings so I was unaware of the soft water.

I'm not planning on adding any fish for awhile, so will let it all settle down and do some more research.

Thanks for all the help and advice!

You're welcome. It is a lesson most of us learned the same way. Always research before acquiring, so you know what the fish will do, what it needs, etc.

The placid state now existing will not continue; as the fish develop, their inherent tendencies will be more pronounced. Removing those unsuited soon is essential. This is probably a part of the death issue, either simply from stress or attacks during the night. Stress is the direct cause of 95% of all fish disease.

 

[Colin_T]

Thank for your help, would the infections be caused by anything I have/haven't done?
Hopefully the rest of the fish will be ok and I can restock in a few weeks.

Internal infections like Tuberculosis (TB) have nothing to do with how you keep the fish. If they have TB then they came in with it. The bacterium that causes TB is very slow growing and takes months or even years before it damages the internal organs, causing major organ failure and subsequent death of the fish.

Protozoan and other bacterial infections are normally caused by poor water quality, dirty tanks, over crowding and stress. Overcrowded tanks generally have more harmful pathogens in the water due to more fish producing more waste, and the fish themselves harbouring more pathogens on their bodies. Dirty tanks have more gunk (fish poop) in the filters and substrate and this can encourage harmful organisms to grow in the tank and affect the fish.

I don't think your tank is overcrowded and if you do regular water changes (50-75% each week) and gravel clean the entire tank, and you clean the filter at least once a month, the number of harmful organisms in the water should be kept at a low level.

A low GH might be one of the reasons the mollies died but without seeing the fish, and their sudden death (within 24hours of going up to the surface or sitting on the bottom) would suggest something other than hardness. And you water is not super soft so it might be a number of issues.

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Don't add any new fish to an aquarium until everything has been good for at least 1 month.

If you want to get more fish, then put the new fish in a quarantine tank for the next month and if they are fine and have no problems in the quarantine tank, then you can add them to another tank. But don't add them to the main tank if more fish die. The fish in the main tank need to be perfectly healthy for at least a month before you add more.

 

[JiminyCricket]

Hi Guys, back again!

This is getting ridiculous... I've just found another paradise and cory dead! One of my rosy (Not sure why I thought it was a cherry!) barbs is has lost almost all of its colour and the other is starting to fade!
I'm going to go talk to the fish store again in the morning and see if they have anymore ideas...
I'll post a pic in a sec!