Trouble with cycling

[Dondon2]

HI everyone. I know you've probably heard questions like this all of the time but please I really need some advice as I am trying to do the best for my fish. I am on my third tank now but the other 2 already came cycled.
I have been setting up a 55g tank. I was doing a fishless cycle for 10 days using sand that was already in the tank and some extra added and a tiny bit of media from my other tank. The water went cloudy after about a week. I was adding fish food and it has a fair bit of plants in there and I was adding stress zyme.
I went to my lfs to ask what to do next and they said with the already used sand from when it was full before and added media this meant the tank was finished cycling even though the filter and the rest of the media was new.
He recommended adding 4 white cloud minnows. I had to take one back after a day because one struggled to acclimatise so now I have 3.
My water has a very fine haze too it. I have been adding nite out 2 to the water daily as directed and I have also put microbe lift gel filter filter starter on the sponge in the water. I have never seen any nitrites since starting and explained this to the lfs and I still haven't. I'm worried I'm now doing a fish in cycle!! I didn't want that!
I don't want to kill the fish so what can I do for the best? If you need anything more then please just ask. Thank you for reading the long long essay!!

 

[Colin_T]

Unless you have an undergravel filter, using sand from another tank is not going to help get the filter going.

If you have power filters, then grab half the filter media from an established tank and put it in the new tank. Instant cycled tank.

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If the water is milky cloudy then it is a bacterial bloom caused by the rotting fish food in the tank. Do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean (with a gravel cleaner) each day for the next week. And cut feeding back to once every second day. In a months time you can increase feeding to every day.

Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

 

[Dondon2]

Hi thank you for your reply. My ammonia levels have now dropped to zero and I am now looking out for nitrites. My nitrates have risen a lot so I have just done a 40% water change. My minnows are fine and are swimming around as usual. Do you know how long it takes for the nitrites to show after my ammonia goes to zero? I am still putting in nite out 2 everyday day. I moved a bit of filter sponge into the new tank about 4 days ago but I didn't want to upset my other tank so only took a bit. It seems to be on the right track at least thank goodness!!

 

[seangee]

My nitrates have risen a lot

That means your nitrites have at least started to be processed. Your cycle may even be complete but keep an eye on the readings for a little longer.

 

[Colin_T]

If you have a nitrate reading but no nitrite reading, then either your tapwater has nitrates or the filters have cycled. However, you need to check nitrite and nitrate separately because nitrate test kits will also pick up nitrites.

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Normally it takes about 2 weeks for sufficient nitrite eating bacteria to develop after the ammonia has gone up and then come back down to 0.

 

[Dondon2]

My nitrates in my tap water are between 5 and 10. Today the nitrates were 40. Had to do a 40% water change. I didn't want to chance doing any more than that. They are lower now but not as low as I'd like them so I plan on doing anot her 40% change tomorrow. StI'll have ammonia 0 nitrites 0 and now nitrates about 25. My ph keeps dropping though which is confusing me as my gh is fine and so is my kh. Hoping it's because it's still balancing lol I'm hoping to put another 2 female white clouds in at the weekend if my water parameters are still ok because the poor female is being chased a lot by the 2 males so I'm hoping he will spread his time between them all. That's the plan anyway. Do you think it will be safe to allow 2 more or should I wait even longer? Thank you for your help

 

[Colin_T]

What do you mean by your pH keeps dropping and what are the GH and KH readings?

If you have some GH & KH the pH should remain the same.

Get a bucket of tap water and check the pH as the bucket is filling up. Write the results down. Then aerate the bucket of water for 24 hours and test the pH several times during that period, say every 3 hours or so. Write the results down each time.

Tapwater is usually under pressure and dissolved gasses can be driven out of the water and this can change the pH. Aerating the water for a bit will get the dissolved gasses back into equilibrium and you might find the pH is different after aerating the water compared to straight out of the tap.

Chlorine is also very alkaline and can buffer the pH a bit.

 

[Dondon2]

My ph in the tap is 7.2 in my tank it's 6.6. My gh is 10 and my kh is 8 in the tank. In my other 2 tanks the levels are the same as each other the ph is 7.2 gh is 10 and kh is between 7 and 8 so I know the other tanks are fine. The only difference is there's more decorations in the other tanks only a couple each though. I wasn't planning on putting any in this one I just wanted a heavily planted tank so the blackmoors eyes were safe.

 

[Colin_T]

There is something in one of the tanks that is dropping the pH. Driftwood or rotting plant matter will lower the pH, as will lots of food and lots of fish.

Fish food & waste will produce acids that are neutralised by the carbonates in the water. The more food or fish waste, the more carbonates that get used up and the faster the pH drops.

 

[Dondon2]

Thank you for the info. I will keep an eye on things. I now have 1mg/l of nitrites now. This is just never ending. Is that really dangerous? I can't wait for all of this to be over so I can enjoy my tank lol I'm sorry for all the questions. I really do appreciate your help and I'm sure my fish do too!! I really wish I'd have listened to my intuition rather than the lfs but I really did think they knew what they were talking about

 

[Colin_T]

Reduce feeding and do a 75% water change each day until the nitrite is back to 0.

Any ammonia or nitrite in the water is bad for fish. 1ppm (1mg/l) of nitrite is not extremely bad but it does cause damage and stress to the fish, so we try to keep the levels at 0.

Nitrates are also toxic to fish but they can tolerate higher levels without as many side effects. Again tho we try to keep nitrates at 0 but this is pretty hard to do especially with nitrates in the water supply. So most people suggest fish are fine in water with less than 40ppm of nitrate. And the fish are usually fine with that level of nitrate.

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If you have other tanks with established filters, you can take some of the filter media from the established tank and put it in the new tank and it will help speed things up. Otherwise just keep feeding down and do regular water changes while the beneficial bacteria develop over the next week or two

 

[Dondon2]

I added a little bit of media from my other tanks in a few days ago. I'm going to do a big water change again it's hard doing a 75% change with it being a 55g but I'm going to change as much as soon I can. The fish seem fine at the minute but I know how fast that can change. I'm hoping the nitrite phase passes quickly.

 

[Dondon2]

Today's water parameters incase anyone needs it in future..... 60% water change with microbe xtreme water conditioner and also microbe nite out 2 added at recommended dose.. ammonia 0 nitrates 15 nitrite 0.5 gh 8d kh6d ph 6.8 cl 0. Fish are lively and looking good today. They are all over the tank. Much better than before the water change. Missed feeding yesterday because of high nitrites so fed them a little tonight. All went after food. Will test water again in the morning and will do another water change if nitrites get to 1 again if not I will do another 60% water change on Monday morning. Hopefully my tank will be done soon with the cycling so I can start enjoying it again instead of worrying all the time!

 

[Dondon2]

I'm not sure weather to leave the water change this morning and do it tonight water parameters are as follows in case people need this later on (i wouldn't want anyone stressing like I have been lol) ammonia 0 nitrites 0.5 nitrates 35 gh above 7d kh 7 ph between 6.8 and 7 cl 0 temp 23c. Fish are not stressed and all have great colour. Will feed them tonight rather than this morning. I'm going to leave the water change till tonight as they are all over the tank. The 2 males are showing off to the 3 females as they go past so they are doing well. With the nitrites not rising I'm hoping that means I am so close to the end. I have been adding nite out 2 everyday and the water tests were taken before I added it so it might be lower after an hour. We shall see..... sorry if the reply annoys you all who's commented but I know how much stress this has been and it might help someone in the future maybe lol

 

[seangee]

Just for info:

• You should not do a water change within 4-6 hours of feeding. The water change is stressful and disrupts the digestive process. Many people (myself included) do not feed at all on water change days.
• Fish can go a long time without feeding (I just leave mine when I go on a 2 week holiday and they are always fine)
• There may well be some beneficial bacteria in the sand but I would still expect the cycle to take around 4 weeks to complete (ok that's a guess but 10 days won't be enough)
• Nitrite, at any level above 0, is harmful to fish
• Feeding increases nitrite (and ammonia) levels.

That's some random info but hopefully provides the logic for my recommendation until the cycle is complete.

1. Feed every other day in the morning
2. On the same day you have fed them do a water change in the evening using dechlorinated, temperature matched water. Do a gravel vac at the same time as the water change.
3. Test for ammonia and nitrite before and after the change. If both are 0 skip the change, but keep testing these daily for a few more days to be sure.
4. On the non-water change days test the ammonia and nitrite in the evening, at about the same time you normally do your water changes. This will help you see what is happening to the levels after 24 hours without feeding

There is no need to keep testing pH and hardness daily - these are unlikely to change.
While you are doing regular water changes there is also no point in testing nitrate daily as you are regularly diluting it.