Three Males One Tank

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I am in Central Queensland so a bit of a hike from Brisbane. Even in CQ, all of my tanks have heaters but they only really come on during winter the rest of the year the heaters are just sitting in the tank collecting moss :lol: . Barometric pressure does stimulate a lot of fish to breed as does changes in water temp, my cory's are the best little weather forecasters that I have come across (apart from ants), but as your not really trying to breed your Bettas in the community tank I would think that barametric pressure and water temp shouldn't be a huge issue. If you did try breeding them in this setup then the real issues I can see arising is when the fry hatch and start hunting around for food (often with the male in tow), as the male will still be in protection mode to ensure his fry's survival and the other fighters in the tank will most likely just view the fry as food. I would have to suggest by all means try to keep 2 or 3 males in the one tank with all of your other precautions, possibly even add some females too (but watch them they can be as nasty as the boys at times) but if wanting to breed them reduce the stress on you and the fish and set up a small breeder tank with the desired male and later add the conditioned female, that way once breeding has been acheived the female can go back into the fighter community and the male can go about his business caring for his eggs and fry without stress. Once the fry are free swimming then the male can be put back in his standard home ( remeber he may have lost his old territory by this stage and there maybe some arguie bargie as heirachies are resorted) and the fry can go on developing in their own tank until they need to be seperated out.


I was thinking more along the lines that if you know the triggers that stimulate breeding, you could avoid them (by keeping tank same temp and so on) and thus perhaps reduce aggression. I noticed that many of the Betta keepers who said their males co-existed reasonably peacefully, were in countrys that wouldnt naturally have the barometric changes that are found in monsoonal Asia and being very cold (in comparison) they're heated most of the year. Was thinking that a combo of steady temp and artificial barometric pressure (as created by airconditioning, for example) and carefully chosen males (least aggressive in the shop) could be the reason why some people are able to keep more than one Betta in a tank.
 
all leaving peacefully together with never a nipped fin in sight!

Except for the male in the 2nd and last picture with the bitten/nipped fins =P


These photos were taken upon the arrival of the boy after he had come through the post. He had recently just been bred with his copper counterpart. I have no reason to lie about my bettas! If they weren't living peacefully together then I would NOT keep them together!

I believe you, I honestly don't think you or anyone else here would do that. If they didn't care about their fish they wouldn't be here. I just thought it was funny that's all.
 
all leaving peacefully together with never a nipped fin in sight!

Except for the male in the 2nd and last picture with the bitten/nipped fins =P


These photos were taken upon the arrival of the boy after he had come through the post. He had recently just been bred with his copper counterpart. I have no reason to lie about my bettas! If they weren't living peacefully together then I would NOT keep them together!

I believe you, I honestly don't think you or anyone else here would do that. If they didn't care about their fish they wouldn't be here. I just thought it was funny that's all.


No worries :)
 
Since you asked me for input… but keep in mind that I did not read the other 3 pages of replies!

Tell me how it can work. I know how and why it wouldn't work, I've had enough opinions on that, but I'd especially appreciate people who have done something similar, eg big tank with multiple betta and decorations, to provide suggestions on improving the odds that I can house three male splendens in a tank together.
Why it won't work is part of why it will work, you can't have one without the other.

I'm going to have a 4x2x2 ft (~100 gallons)
The height is irrelevant, as is the volume: the males would split the tank up based on territory area. For a 4*2 ft, I would recommend a maximum of two males. If you want to go for 3, a 5-6*1-2 ft footprint would be better. Still, keeping males together is a bad idea unless you have at least two quarantine tanks in case things go wrong (you need to have these before you buy the Bettas). I found that for Bettas, there is even little difference between a 4*2*2 ft tank compared to a 4*1*1 ft tank when keeping males together, the length is most important.

heavily planted tank (high tech for those of you) that would look something like this: http://www.aquascapingworld.com/gallery/images/1/1_18.jpg though with more smaller plants where the rocks are and much less rocks.
The tank you linked to is not heavily planted, it is medium planted. Heavily planted would be so thick with plants that you and the fish can not see from one end to the other because of plants. There would be no open areas, the fish would *always* be swimming through plants.
This is heavily planted (note how plants come all the way to the front): http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a323/maxwell1295/Fish/Fishies336.jpg
This is moderately heavily planted (could do with some more in the middle and no algae): http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5624/p1040777.jpg
This is heavily planted on the left side: http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/cmats12889/IMAG0058.jpg
…I think you get the general idea now. With a moderately planted tank, this is *very* unlikely to work.

Dual filters, inline heaters in both, with modifications on the intake and outtake pipes so the current is low enough for the bettas.
Be careful with this as flow impeding modifications can encourage the filter to break and can prevent it from functioning properly. Why would you not go for only one filter? There is little point in taking two filters and then reducing the flow… but if you go for the amount of plants you will need to make sure the fish never meet each other, even a severely underpowered filter would be enough.

I'm going to throw in a bunch of shrimps also; the tank will have only the shrimps and the three male betta splendens. I'll be choosing the boys from LFS so I can hopefully buy those that are less obviously aggressive--unless it doesn't matter so I can get them online? A halfmoon and a crowntail for sure and another one that I like the look of--they won't come from the same spawn.
You would be better off buying young (barely sexable) siblings as very young males are moderately peaceful and aggression is usually triggered by a change in the environment, as much as small spaces.

An aggressive male will happily shred another male in a tank that size, so it is definitely worth going for placid fish.

I'll be using quarantine bottles/jars for them (about 1+ gallon) and release them at the same time in different spots of the tank in the hope that they have an equal chance to choose their own territory; so that it isn't one will establish their territory first and dominate the others when they go into the tank much later.
The introduction order doesn't matter much, I found; just don't put a new male next to the old one.

The reason for three males is I've seen several shoaling fish that were fine in bigger groups, 3 or 4 at least, but when they were left with two, one would chase the other endlessly. I know they're not shoaling fish; it's hopefully to even out the aggression and the tank would be big enough in territory for the boys. Three males are also easier to manage than having bigger group.
The principle is sound for schooling species (which is why I think they should never be kept in groups of smaller than 6, and 10-15+ is a better minimum), but Bettas are solitary fish with a territory requirement, so the principle does not apply. While spreading the aggression is a good idea, it is not good to increase the likelihood of the males meeting. If you want to make this work, your aim should be to make sure that the males *do not meet*.

There's also a consideration that they might simply hide in the plants and not come out a lot?
Yep, that's the idea: they should spend all their time in the plants.

My back up plan: if it fails, I'll return them to the bottles and buy a few 2ft, scape them and make the main tank for ramirezi.
Maximum 3 juvenile pairs and you'll have to add all 3 at the same time. They will do better in a shorter tank, for example a 4 ft long * 2 ft front to back * 1-1.5 ft tall, instead of 2 ft tall: they come from shallow areas and seem "lost" in taller tanks, in my experience.

To be honest, it does not sound like what you're asking for is what you actually want. I recommend that you pass on the Bettas and go for the blue rams. A good alternative would be 10-30 female Betta spendens or a large group of any of the peaceful species of Bettas (which is most other species).
 
KittyKat,

Thanks. I will either get 3 males or 2 males and 2 females, or thereabouts.

I suppose our ways of seeing what is heavily planted differs and I have put up this question to be answered by others. It's interesting.

I thought of using two filters so as to have better flow in the tank, which is apparently crucial for a planted tank. The way I lower the current will not affect my filters. Anyway, decided not to use two filters but a wet/dry sump since it's cheaper and many have touted to be better.

A couple of things which sound like contradiction at first glance:

Do you add them 3 at a time or does introduction not matter?

If "The principle is sound for schooling species (which is why I think they should never be kept in groups of smaller than 6, and 10-15+ is a better minimum), but Bettas are solitary fish with a territory requirement, so the principle does not apply." then why does "A good alternative would be 10-30 female Betta spendens" this apply?



I've a hypothesis about territorial betta splendens, especially about the famed sorority, and I'm going to test it out with this tank. Excited.
 
Maybe I should have phrased it slightly differently: "males are solitary maniacs (for the most part), while females are social maniacs (for the most part)" ;)

Basically, the difference is that males are territorial, females are not.

Adding two females is asking for trouble (although not as much as having two males) because the dominant one will not remain predominantly in a "set" territory, but will chase the sub-dominant one all over the tank, if she fancies. So for females, it helps to spread the aggression, but the comments you picked out were specifically about males.

So up to two males would work or over 5 females. 3 males or 2 females will probably not work in the long term. It might do in the short term, but there is a very high possibility of you coming home to dead fish one day.

I've a hypothesis about territorial betta splendens, especially about the famed sorority, and I'm going to test it out with this tank. Excited.
Care to share it with us? It is likely that someone has already tried it. Even if you don't, remember that females are *very different* from males in their behaviour.
 
Care to share it with us? It is likely that someone has already tried it. Even if you don't, remember that females are *very different* from males in their behaviour.

I don't think they are that different from males and feel that the current notions that females can be sororities, the whole hierarchy dominance theory in general for splendens are off. I need more reading up on research and stuff before my idea can even stand to be a hypothesis to test out.

P.S: Had two female splendens in a roughly 10 gallon tank with two small plants. They lived together for months (>6), got along well together with occasional chasing (although one was bigger than the other); even when a male was introduced. They didn't breed, females went up to the crowntail male but nothing else happened, so a few days after, we swapped for another bigger male that they kept running from (male exhausted himself and died). I think one of them was sold and the other died from a disease outbreak (many small tanks connected to one wet/dry sump; several other fish died as well). All in all, I wouldn't put two females in that small a tank together again, but two females wasn't the terrible aggressive nightmare that people insist on.
 

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