Substrate buffering

[Carpi150]

Hi all,

This may sound ridiculous but need advice please.

I purchased 36kg of African cichlid substrate months ago for around £100. So I can’t return it...

This stuff is suppose to buffer the water to around 8.2-8.4 PH.

However I’ve now changed my mind about getting cichlids, and going to keep my rainbows and angels.

If I was to add a layer of ADA aqua soil from my current tank, place crafting mesh above it, then add the cichlid substrate on top.

ADA AQUA SOIL - Lowers PH
CICHLID SUBSTRATE - Raises PH

Basically I don’t want to waste the cichlid substrate. I do like the look of it.

What happens when these two types are added together? I’ve read online that you can keep soil under sand, so please no discussion about this.

Just need to know what happens to PH when both substrates have opposite buffering?

Thank you

 

[Colin_T]

Most rainbowfish are fine in water with a pH above 7.0 but angelfish don't like a high pH. If you keep rainbowfish without angels then it's fine.

re: the two different substrates. The top substrate that is exposed to the water will buffer the water, whereas the substrate on the bottom will not affect the pH because there is very little of it being exposed to the water moving around the tank. In your case, the pH will go up because the cichlid substrate will be on top and it will be in contact with the water moving around the aquarium.

 

[Carpi150]

Thanks for the info Colin

 

[pov]

i think it,s got more with what to do with what you make you ph with rather then the buffer itself as cal an mag will also buffer an acidic water and stop your ph from rising . It works both ways ... I have had my ph crash to acidic using chiclid substrate just from nitrate build up .and you basically have to change all the water and wash the gravel. So i doubt that the substrate contains anything to raise ph . If you give it a good rinse to get rid of any sodium it should work perfect buffering blackwater .. This way cal and magnesium will form solids in the presense of a strong base .. I think...!!!!

 

[Carpi150]

Hello

Thanks for your help.

So to clarify. If I was to thoroughly rinse the cichlid substrate, it would not raise the PH?

 

[pov]

Hello

Thanks for your help.

So to clarify. If I was to thoroughly rinse the cichlid substrate, it would not raise the PH?

it shouldnt but you would need to add a fair amount of weak acid , for the substrate to buffer with . I have never done a acidic tank ever. I am pretty sure it,s more work to keep a tank buffered on the acid side you need to watch it more because usually it just works against nitric acid . there is aquarium ph downs .that use potassium and also mineral salt mixes for acid buffering conditioners. Mostly for discus .

 

[pov]

Hello

Thanks for your help.

So to clarify. If I was to thoroughly rinse the cichlid substrate, it would not raise the PH?

 

[pov]

https://www.chemguide.co.uk/physical/acidbaseeqia/buffers.html

or if your into chemical engineering ..
there are heaps of java script calculators online for making the buffer or the weak acid and it,s conjugate base ,, i am not sure whats what , say sodium phosphate. And it,s counterparts.

 

[pov]

http://clymer.altervista.org/buffers/phos2.html

 

[pov]

https://www.ebay.com.au/p/1x-Seachem-Acid-Buffer-600g/1048019674
i am not sure whats in this but, but if you use this plus the chiclid substrate , i would add dissolved cal mg aswell .plus a potassium ph down ,not a nitric acid one but you could include it. And that would be the entire system .. unless you have wood or other things that change your enviroment.. Oh and added carbonates with the cal mg thats dissolved.

 

[pov]

i have never seen it but i read last week that the ada aqua soil is full of stuff like bits of wood and coir ect it can be tricky to work with. There is another product by oliver knot i am thinking of getting it instead.. The laterite .... Which is more like a baked clay but still like soil .. An inbetweener kinda thing.

 

[Colin_T]

So to clarify. If I was to thoroughly rinse the cichlid substrate, it would not raise the PH?

Most African cichlid substrates are calcium based and are specifically designed to increase the pH and raise it to 8.0+. It doesn't matter how much you wash it, if it's calcium based it will raise the pH.

If you can post a picture of the packaging there might be information on there that offers more insight as to what it will do. But if it's designed for African rift Lake cichlids, it will push the pH up.

 

[Byron]

Colin is correct. The cichlid substrate dissolves calcium and magnesium and this is going to occur once it is in the tank filled with water.

Attempting to somehow counter this is not feasible nor safe. Don't use it. Someone locally might be willing to buy it. I would give it away or toss it in the back garden before risking fish.

 

[Colin_T]

You could use the cichlid substrate in a tank with rainbowfish and set up another tank with normal sand or gravel for the angelfish.

 

[pov]

colin and Byron are both wrong ...what I wrote is fairly straight forward so I am not going to point anything out . I would just do some real research on buffering systems .