Stocking questions

[Emma_M]

Hi everyone

FYI - I have another post on here about a faulty filter, so this post of course assumes that is fixed!

I have a 37g tank (calculated by measuring capacity accounting for water level and glass thickness; 34 or so with approx 2 in of substrate and some driftwood). Ammonia ad Nitrites at 0, pH approx 7.5, water is soft.

I have a Fluval 306 canister filter. The tank is planted (see attached photo).

I would like to stock with the following. The bold are the fish that are already in the tank, the species in italics are the ones I would like to add:

4 Agassiz Cories
2 Scarlet Badis
3 Black Phantom Tetra
5 Leopard/Zebra Danio
3 Galaxy Rasbora
1 Bengal/Queen Loach - please can someone confirm from photo?
2 Congo Tetra
7 Cardinal Tetra
5 Rummynose Tetra

Below and attached are the stats from AqAdvisor:
Your aquarium filtration capacity is satisfactory.
Your aquarium filtration capacity for above selected species is 111%.
Recommended water change schedule: 33% per week.
Your aquarium stocking level is 68%.

I would love all of your advice and input about this! I know that I plan to stock heavily but I do have a large filter. I was advised that 2 Congos would be ok together, and that numbers were ok for the other species, however there is a warning from AqAdvisor. Tetras seem happy. Loach is a bit zoomy at times. The tank has been running for 2+ years and I acquired recently. The Cories, Badis and Loach were with the tank.

Thank you!
Emma

 

[Colin_T]

All tetras, barbs, danios & rasboras are schooling fish and need to be kept in groups consisting of at least 10 of their own kind. These fish naturally occur in schools consisting of hundreds or even thousands of individuals so even keeping 10 of them is not normal for them. However, for the average aquarium, 10 is a good number to start with due to the restraints caused by tank size.

I would not get congo or rummynose tetras and I would probably get rid of the zebra/ leopard danios. Then I would increase the numbers of black phantom tetras, galaxy rasboras, and get a group of cardinal tetras. You could also increase the number of Corydoras because they like bigger groups.

Can't comment on the loach because I have never kept that species. But generally loaches are schooling fish too.

-----------------------
The recommended 33% water change each week is not very good. Fish live in a soup of bacteria, protozoans, fungus & viruses. All aquariums should get a big water change each week to keep these micro-organisms at low levels. I like to do a 75% water change and complete gravel clean each week to minimise the pathogens in the water & gravel and keep the tank cleaner.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

 

[Emma_M]

All tetras, barbs, danios & rasboras are schooling fish and need to be kept in groups consisting of at least 10 of their own kind. These fish naturally occur in schools consisting of hundreds or even thousands of individuals so even keeping 10 of them is not normal for them. However, for the average aquarium, 10 is a good number to start with due to the restraints caused by tank size.

I would not get congo or rummynose tetras and I would probably get rid of the zebra/ leopard danios. Then I would increase the numbers of black phantom tetras, galaxy rasboras, and get a group of cardinal tetras. You could also increase the number of Corydoras because they like bigger groups.

Thanks for your input. I have posted the same question on some other forums to try to get as much feedback as possible and it looks like I am going a bit nuts with the species. I used to keep many fish when I was younger and I just love the variety, so it's so hard to not want all of the species I used to keep!!

I think I will look into rehoming the loach. I obviously would like my fish to be happy and I don't have the space for more of them. It also looks like I should skip the rummynose as you suggest. They are such wonderful fish but really my heart is set on the cardinals. They are the absolute must for the tank. I also agree that I should probably have not got the danio and I will look into rehoming. I kind of jumped into this and now I see that I should have worked out my entire stock before I started rather than picking individual species one at a time and going from there.

Regarding the congos... the reason for those is that I feel that the tank needs a show piece fish or two. I was advised by my LSF that two males alone would do fine since the other species are relatively peaceful. So far the badis and CPDs are doing fine and look relaxed, if that is possible to see in fish! So I am wondering if they suggested lower numbers because of the other species? I of course agree that they are better in larger numbers but my question is whether in my set up two would be ok.

If no to the congos, what other 'showpiece' species would you recommend?

 

[seangee]

I always thought that about variety and showpiece. That is until I started increasing the shoal sizes. In one of my tanks I have 25 galaxy rasbora with no other fish (i do have shrimp and it's a smaller tank than yours). It really doesn't need anything else as the behaviour is so much more interesting on bigger groups.

In my 55g I have only 2 types of tetra but 15 of each, and (imho) they make a stunning display.

 

[Essjay]

Never believe anything a shop worker says till you have researched it for yourself. So much of what they tell you is rubbish - for example having just 2 congo tetras. I'll bet they also failed to tell you they need tanks at least 48 inches long. http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/phenacogrammus-interruptus/ The link also comments that while they may be peaceful they are active swimmers so shouldn't be kept with small or sedate fish. The website Seriously Fish is just about the best one for researching fish

I also now prefer larger shoals of fewer species. I have just 2 shoals of fish in my 180 litre (47 gallon) tank.

 

[Colin_T]

Never believe anything a shop worker says till you have researched it for yourself.

be nice, I use to work in a shop

But on a serious note, congos naturally occur in huge schools in the wild so sticking 2 males in a tank is not very good for them. And as mentioned by Essjay, they like a bit of room to swim so a longer tank is better for them.

If you want to keep your danios they should be ok with black phantoms & cardinals but might be a bit boisterous for the galaxy rasboras. If you want danios then drop the galaxy rasboras.

If you want a centre piece fish perhaps get a pr (male & female) Apistogramma cacatuoides. The males grow to 2-3 inches and females are smaller, they are relatively peaceful and naturally occur with tetras and cories. The red flame, double red or orange colour forms are quite stunning when the males mature. And the tank should be big enough for a pr to breed and not cause too many problems to the other fishes in the tank.

Another option would be one of the smaller gouramis like licorice, honey dwarf or Indian banded gouramis, but avoid the common dwarf gourami (Trichogaster lalius) and its colour forms. They are riddled with diseases and should be avoided until the breeders in Asia get their act together.

 

[Essjay]

be nice, I use to work in a shop

I usually add 'there are some good ones but they are few and far between' but I omitted that on this occasion. You are obviously one of the few

 

[Colin_T]

he he he he, little do they know I am not a good one

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

Other members have given very good advice, so I needn't repeat that but only confirm I agree. And that store is one I would not accept any advice from at face value without research (when it comes to fish anyway).

On the Bengal/Queen Loach, this is probably Botia dario:
https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/botia-dario/
As it notes in this reliable data, it should have at minimum a 4-foot (120 cm) length tank, and it needs a group of five minimum. Loaches, such as all those in the genus Botia, are very highly social fish, and without a group this one is going to get severely stressed, which means poor health, early death, and likely very aggressive behaviours due to the stress. Fish have no way to deal with stress except lash out, or the opposite when they withdraw and die from hunger.

The tank size limits a group, and this fish will get to five inches (13 cm) and forms an hierarchy within the group so it needs lots of chunks of wood for individual "homes" and territorial play. Loaches are indeed fascinating fish largely because of their social interaction. But a lone fish is not going to have much opportunity for social interaction.

As for additional fish including centrepiece, this is not advisable here. The problems with the existing stock need to be resolved first, and depending what you remove and what you keep, plus the additional numbers for kept shoaling species...there may not be any room left. But another thing is that some of the existing fish will not work with anything much larger. The Scarlet Badis and CPD primarily; these fish are not good community fish, though that can work but only with very careful planning, avoiding any active, large or territorial fish.

 

[seangee]

The Scarlet Badis and CPD primarily;

Just for clarification in case its needed...
The fish sold as Galaxy Rasbora are in fact Celestial Pearl Danio which is usually abbreviated CPD. They are fairly commonly known as Galaxy Rasbora - so its not the shop pulling a fast one (this time ). Just thought I'd mention in case the OP wondered how CPD entered the discussion.

 

[Emma_M]

Hi everyone,

Thank you, this is all very helpful and I appreciate your advice and opinions. I am thinking of rehoming some species.

What would you think about the following:

8-12 Rummynose
8 Black Phantom Tetra
12 Cardinals
4 Agassiz Corys
2 Scarlet Badis
6 (or so) CPDs
plus one or two something-instead-of-congo

For the showpiece, I am thinking one of these options (i.e. only one species, 1 or 2 individuals):
1 Samurai Gourami (Colin, I think the licorice gourami is wonderful but I hear that it is very rare and I would not like to contribute to that, not sure if I am getting incorrect info though)
OR: 2 Apistogramma, probably agassizi but I haven't looked too much into the species
OR: 1 or 2 German Blue Ram (heard mixed things about compatibility for community tank)

Other suggestions for show piece fish very welcome

The reason for the CPD increase is that the three look pretty relaxed right now. I have also read max temp is ok at 78, but there is much variation out there. I am trying to avoid too much rehoming.

Thanks

 

[Colin_T]

the samurai gourami is a type of chocolate gourami and they require soft acid water with lots of plants and slow moving fish peaceful fish. Your pH is too high for them and they are on the endangered species list so you would have to get captive bred stock only.

Apisotgramma agassizi are fine but get German bred fish, not crap from Asia.

 

[seangee]

A word of caution on the CPD and why people say they are not suitable for community tanks.

These fish are very shy and timid. They will also not come to the surface for food (so feeding flake is pointless). They are easily out competed for food and some of the fish on your list are greedy little beggars. There have been a few posts (not sure if its this forum or elsewhere) about CPD getting thin and bent and then dying. This is nothing to do with poor quality fish or disease, they are simply being starved to death. What @Byron says about avoiding active fish is important, and having a big group will also make them more confident. I don't think 6 will be enough in your proposed setup for their long term health.

 

[Byron]

The CPD need a much larger group in their own tank to be in the best state. I would move the three you have to their own tank and increase them. They may look pretty relaxed, but you/we cannot possible know that; they may on the contrary be seriously stressed. The presence of the other fish may be keeping them occupied, so to speak, for the moment, but this can change.

You will not find any "centrepiece" fish for this tank due to what you already have and the tank size.

Something else to keep in mind is where a species remains in the water column. All fish mentioned so far are lower level species.

 

[Emma_M]

Thanks again everyone.

How about this: any more thoughts would be very welcome!

8-12 Rummynose
8 Black Phantom Tetra
12 Cardinals
8 Agassiz Corys
2 Scarlet Badis
2 Apistogramma, probably agassizi - will wait on this for last to see how the tank is doing

Quick question about the corys - I have 4 but the group is 2 individuals of 2 species that look pretty similar. I believe it's 2 x Agassiz and 2 x Julii. Is this an issue? They hang out together. If I were to add 4 more, which species do you recommend?