Staghorn Algae/Phosphate Problem

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dsilvers

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We have a 55 gallon tank, live substrate soil, live plants, rock, angel fish, tetras, glass catfish, pleco, otos, clown loach, canister filter from Eheim, all other chemistyr is great, nitrates, nitrites, oxygen, pH, etc. Except for phosphate. It's high. We tested tap water, barely any phosphates. We checked out the food we were feeding, nothing wrong there. We do regular water changes and soil vacuuming, etc. We tested our CO2 liquid ad it had high phosphates. So we found the culprit, but now we are having a hard time getting the po4 out. And we have staghorn algae to prove it. We are trying different filters in the canister filter...hoping for results soon. We planted more plants...try and beat out the algae. Any thoughts? This is a freshwater set up by the by.
 
Changing more water you get easily get rid of the phosphate. I do 50% water changes weekly.

So we found the culprit

So what causes high phosphate -level?
 
Phophates are used in numerous water additives. There is a reason, phosphates are used to buffer the pH. Without adequate buffering, the pH in the tank can fluctuate quite wildly, so to make sure, PO4's are added to keep the pH within a narrow range.

So called "buffer powders" that are designed to set your pH to some reasonably precise value, invariably, are made of mixtures of acid and alkali Sodium Phosphate.

Water changes are the quickest and easiest way to reduce PO4, but be careful you don't destabilise your pH in the process.
 
We don't use any chemicals, including buffer powders? And we've never had a pH problem. The only thing we ever use is AquaSafe to dechlorinate our tap water. But that's it. So I'm not sure about that.
It really came down to the CO2 method we were using. It was liquid ampules. Newer product. But now it's more about getting rid of them. We do 30% water changes every other week, but recently have been doing 10% serial changes to rid the water of P04. And in everything I've read. 50% changes are to much for most tanks..shocks the fish too much. So 25-30% is the highest we will go....
 
>>> It really came down to the CO2 method we were using

That's what I was talking about, CO2 will disolve in water lowering pH as Carbonic Acid forms. I am not familiar with your product, but was indicating a reason why it may be laced with PO4.

The discussion of buffers was to try to explain buffering - if you are familiar with buffer potential, then ignore my divergence.
 
Is it possible that sodium phosphate or any other base with phosphate was added to your CO2 mixture to help the yeast(assuming you use the yeast method)
live longer? I read that some people add baking soda(a base) to help the yeast thus producing more bubbles.

The yeast solution might have gotten in the tank, and that is where the phosphate might come from.

Anyway, try doing two 10% water changes during this week(or about once every 3 days. It won't hurt your fish(I hope so) cos you are doing smaller, water changes, thus it doesnt thorw your water conditions out, the ph, temp etc..

I do a weekly 20% water change(Used to be everyday or everyother day, together with water vacuum each time. All I got was green algae(the bacteria were almost always disturbed, thus, there is a light ammonia increase, and the green algae fed on it, because my palnts were doing poorly(Cos I always disturbed the roots/moving them).
Now I know better though.

Hope this helps.

Revenge
 
PO4 is not causing your algae problem.
NH4 is often the culprit. By the time folks test for it, the plants/algae have already converted it into protein or bacteria have converted it to NO3.
The reason why I know about this is from algal cultures where we induce strains by using NH4 vs NO3.
You can also over load a tank by adding more and more fish to a tank till you gte an algal bloom but keep the same PO4 levels throughout the whole run.
Also, many people add PO4 to their tanks, mine for example has roughly 1 ppm of PO4 which is certainly anything but limiting to any plant or algae.
When I add NH4 instead of KNO3 at increasing amounts(it does not take much) I'll get green water and staghorn most everytime as some of the main algae species.

If you are using CO2 or want to use something to enrich the water with carbon to help plant growth, use gas CO2.
The liquid amples will work perhaps in small tanks and folks generally don't do well over the long term with these.
You likely did something that pulled up dirt/jobes sticks/soil/muck from deep in the substrate, there's your source of NH4. Sometimes poor or fluctuating CO2 levels can causes issues. Sometimes the bio media was killed off or is inadequate for the bioload.

When the plants are missing a nutrient, they stop removing things like PO4, NO3, and NH4. NH4 will also come from the critters/fish etc, if the plants are not able to remove the NH4, the filter is generally a back up, but it takes time for it to react, this window is where algae often gain the upper hand.

Do a water change after you prune/uproot/clean filters etc.
Keep CO2 in good supply, consider adding KNO3 etc(macro nutrients) and traces.
Fish enjoy large weekly water changes. I've done 50% weekly water changes for many years(30), my fish bred so they seem not to be too upset.
It's also a great method to re set your tank each week to prevent anything from being over dosed, and regular additions of NO3, PO4, K + traces 2-3x a week prevent anything from running out.
This way you can provide a great place for the plants, and healthy plants= healthy fish.

Regards,
Tom Barr
 
Keep CO2 in good supply, consider adding KNO3
I don't see any reason, why to add KNO3 if you keep fishes in planted tank. It depends how planted the tank is, if it's heavy planted there might be too little NO3- but usually when you read these messages on forum(s) there is more than enough NO3- (but too little K+). I would consider to add K2SO4, if there is too little potassium.

Fish enjoy large weekly water changes. I've done 50% weekly water changes for many years(30), my fish bred so they seem not to be too upset.

I agree! I don't see why people always says that changing too much water causes only problems. It's a very good way to get rid of harmul compounds and fishes, including plants too, get fresh water - even plants need fresh water too.
 

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