Some Advice Needed

[BORDER]

Howdy, i have recently joined this forum after getting my first Malawi tank set-up.

I am in the very early stages of getting it going , i have got 5 Mbuna cichlids in at the moment and will stay with this amount until the tank is established properly.


2 x demasoni zebra

2 x electric yellow

1 x synodontis spotted cat

I do have some small questions i am hoping find help with on here. Since starting my tank i have purchased some water testing kits , although some people say they are not really required i am trying to go about this the best why i can , and being new to it trying to cover all bases.

I have Nitrite / Nitrate & Amonia test kits and have been daily keepin an eye on the water situation and these are the results i have had today.

NITRITE = 0.3 mg/l

AMONIA = 0.0 mg/l

NITRATE = 12.5 mg/l

now what i find hard to get my head around is this, the water from my tap is perfectly clear of these and i have a ph of 7.0 with no treatment.

my tank already had a nitrite of 0.3 when only filled with the tap water , and the Nitrate of 12.5, this was before i added the fish ( these were only added yesterday - after the tank had been stood for a week with filter running )

so i am guessing it could be something to do with the rocks i have put in or the plastic tree root ???

the levels dont appear to be getting any different since adding the fish , and the fish all apear to be happy and have settled in ok.

the other odd thing is, when i sw the nitrate was at 0.3 , i did a 50% water change got water back up to temperature and retested, and to my suprise the nitrite was the same ?? does anyone have any suggestions as to why im getting these readings considering the water is fine straight from the tap used to fill the tank .

im not overly concerned at this moment ,as the nitrite is minimal and i have only just added fish, obviously i am expecting this to rise slightly , and i am being carefull with my feeding.

but it does cause a head scratching moment ,that the tap water is fine straight out of the tap , and same water in the tank shows nitrite traces...

any help would be very welcomed, i have tried to research as much as i possibly can , but theres nothing like getting info striaght from the horses mouth so to speak..

great forum btw....... very hellpfull




some very early pics ( fish are present ...just a little shy )

 

[darrel69]

It sounds like you already have traces of nitrite & nitrate in your tap water. Im not 100% sure what you'd have to do in that case but i think you may have to treat your water with something to remove them both before adding to your tank.

Your rocks wont be adding nitrite/nirate to your water. What kind of rocks are they ? ocean rock ? if so, they'll only harden your water which is good for mbuna. Also, its a good thing your plastic root is actually plastic as real root's can lower your ph which is not good for mbuna. A ph of 7.0 is a little low i think, im sure it has to be at least 7.8 for african's. But they may thrive, not sure ? you'd have to wait for someone else to check.

Your going to go through the cycling stage anyway for the next 4-6 weeks, so plenty of water changes to keep ammonia/nitrite/nitrate at low levels.

Nice tank btw & good luck ..

 

[BORDER]

thanks for your reply ...

and after reading , i decided to make another nitrite test on the tap water, and its 100% spot on, no nitrites found.

i have read somewhere that, when starting the cycle , the bacteria could already be present and could already be producing the nitrite at this early stage ..has anyone here experienced this ??

they explained it that when you get the tank initialy set-up after a week of leaving it with your filter running , with all rocks etc present ...small traces of nitirite will be found ??

but then other places , and my local shop explained it that nitrite should be 0 after this time..

again its wierd because afterseeing the nitrite ..i did a 50% water change...and its still there...

so anyways i can safely say i have ruled out the tap water , its 100% spot on...so i guess its something in the tank or filter ??

anymore help is always welcome

 

[darrel69]

Did you declorinate it before testing ?

 

[BORDER]

Did you declorinate it before testing ?

I didnt no...to be honest i didnt think that would effect the nitrite reading..( the way im testing is how my local storw showed me..- and they are a very reputable store )

would you think this makes a difference ?

 

[Matt_northants]

my tank already had a nitrite of 0.3 when only filled with the tap water , and the Nitrate of 12.5, this was before i added the fish ( these were only added yesterday - after the tank had been stood for a week with filter running )

You say that you let you tank running for a week before adding the fish?
Was the filter media from a mature tank? In which case the majority, if not all, of bacteria have most possibly.
If the filter media was brand new, and you didnt add any gunk from a mature filter, then the filters are definately not filtered. This is definately bad news as Malawis dont cope very well with poor quality water.
Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate should only appear in your aquarium from organic matter, ie fish waste or dying plants, I find it highly doubtful that they would of come from rock, an inorganic material, or the plastic root, hopefully an inert organic material.
If you filters are not cycled IMO your best option is to ask your LFS to hold your fish for you and do a fishless cycle. If this is not an option then you should feed your fish the bare minimum and carry out large scale water changes every day to keep the levels of nitrite and ammonia down.

 

[darrel69]

Did you declorinate it before testing ?

I didnt no...to be honest i didnt think that would effect the nitrite reading..( the way im testing is how my local storw showed me..- and they are a very reputable store )

would you think this makes a difference ?

Ive always known to declore water before testing because that gives more accurate results. Unless it only applies to ph testing ??? not sure. You could try to see ...

 

[BORDER]

One thing that my girlfriend has pointed out..

a few days after i set the tank up , but before the fish were added there were small bits of plants floating in the water , im guessing it was left over on the rock, ( its sea rock by the way , hard rock and soft coral rock ).

There werent great volumes of it, but enough to see it in the water , would you think this could be a likely candidate for the nitrite levels ?

i find it very difficult to understand that there were small ( and we are talking small traces of nitrite ) in the tank before fish were added , and as you can see from the pics i dont have any plantes. all that was present in the tank were the rocks , sand , plastic tree root.

i filled the tank from the tap which is known to not have nitrite in, and set the filter away and left it for a full 7 days ( under instruction from ly local store )

i am now maybe thinking these traces of plant in the rock could possibly have something to do with the nitrite levels

any thoughts ??

 

[caboose_122]

how big is the tank and how long has it been running? demasoni should be kept single or in a group of 12.

 

[BORDER]

the tank is a 120 litre 3 ft JEWEL RECORD 120

it has been set-up for 10 days

7 of these with no fish

as for the demasoni . not that im trying to teach my grand mother how to suck eggs... but i have seen countless pics of people with malawi mbuna tanks, most of which have 2-3 blue zebra's in.

i read somwhere that its better to keep one male and a few females ( 1 - 3/5 ) but never 12, i think that a little excessive but if thats the case in most tanks you would only be able to have these fish....

again , i dont pretend to know everythng , and i certainly do not wish to argue with people who do know alot more than myself, however in this case after seeing alot of Mbuna communites i think these figures are a little off..


and this doesnt really answer my question

would small traces of plant on the ocean rock cause nitrite in the water if it started to decay ???

 

[darrel69]

would small traces of plant on the ocean rock cause nitrite in the water if it started to decay ???

Although its possible, i doubt if they're only small traces.

 

[BORDER]

Although its possible, i doubt if they're only small traces.


thanks for your reply...i guess some more investigating is in order

 

[dthoffsett]

as for the demasoni . not that im trying to teach my grand mother how to suck eggs... but i have seen countless pics of people with malawi mbuna tanks, most of which have 2-3 blue zebra's in.

i read somwhere that its better to keep one male and a few females ( 1 - 3/5 ) but never 12, i think that a little excessive but if thats the case in most tanks you would only be able to have these fish....

again , i dont pretend to know everythng , and i certainly do not wish to argue with people who do know alot more than myself, however in this case after seeing alot of Mbuna communites i think these figures are a little off..

In the countless pics of tanks you've seen have they owners listed the "blue zebra's" as p.demasoni? There are quite a few species of mbuna that are commonly labeled as blue zebra's and have the blue/black stripe combination.

Through trial and error (mostly error ) the vast majority of demasoni keepers have found keeping them in groups smaller than 12 almost always leads to intense fighting and deaths once the males reach adult age. And since it is extremely difficult to sex them as juveniles, you generally don't find out you have multiple males until they are sexually mature. Just ask Ferris, he used to breed them.

On to the nitrite, yes there could be levels present from decaying plant matter. However, once the tank is fully cycled any extra nitrite should be taken care of. The thing to do now is daily or every other day water changes to keep the levels down, mbuna don't deal well with cycling and that; coupled with aggression problems that can arise from the cycling mbuna establishing territories and fighting with new fish; is why fishless cycling is most often recommended.

Also, 3-ft isn't ideal for mbuna, because of their aggression and territory needs 4-ft is considered the minimum. However if you stick to less aggressive species such as l.caeruleus, i.sprengerae, & p.saulosi you "should" be ok.

 

[BORDER]

as for the demasoni . not that im trying to teach my grand mother how to suck eggs... but i have seen countless pics of people with malawi mbuna tanks, most of which have 2-3 blue zebra's in.

i read somwhere that its better to keep one male and a few females ( 1 - 3/5 ) but never 12, i think that a little excessive but if thats the case in most tanks you would only be able to have these fish....

again , i dont pretend to know everythng , and i certainly do not wish to argue with people who do know alot more than myself, however in this case after seeing alot of Mbuna communites i think these figures are a little off..

In the countless pics of tanks you've seen have they owners listed the "blue zebra's" as p.demasoni? There are quite a few species of mbuna that are commonly labeled as blue zebra's and have the blue/black stripe combination.

Through trial and error (mostly error ) the vast majority of demasoni keepers have found keeping them in groups smaller than 12 almost always leads to intense fighting and deaths once the males reach adult age. And since it is extremely difficult to sex them as juveniles, you generally don't find out you have multiple males until they are sexually mature. Just ask Ferris, he used to breed them.

On to the nitrite, yes there could be levels present from decaying plant matter. However, once the tank is fully cycled any extra nitrite should be taken care of. The thing to do now is daily or every other day water changes to keep the levels down, mbuna don't deal well with cycling and that; coupled with aggression problems that can arise from the cycling mbuna establishing territories and fighting with new fish; is why fishless cycling is most often recommended.

Also, 3-ft isn't ideal for mbuna, because of their aggression and territory needs 4-ft is considered the minimum. However if you stick to less aggressive species such as l.caeruleus, i.sprengerae, & p.saulosi you "should" be ok.

Thankyou,

The Demasoni pics are actually labled as Demasoni .. i used blue zebra as the common term..

I have been doing alot of research into these fish as i am aware they are aggressive, although it was some 20 years ago my parents had tanks of malawi cichlids / marine and koi carp ..so we are not totally unaware of fish and the needs they demand, because it was so long ago i am going over old ground and joggin the old memory ....lol

i have tried to get as much information as i possibly can, so that i dont end up making unessecary mistakes, but one thing i have found particularly with malawi cichlids is there is an awfull lot of differences in the way people keep them and practices they use. one of the worst things i have found that i am doing is checking various websites for information, many have different views on how things should be done and best ways to go about keeing them.

most kind of agree on the cycle , but the opinions on the fish and stocking can vary alot..( which doesn't help my cause )

i am currently doing daily water changes to keep the nitrite as low as it can possibly be and testing water twice daily.

its an age old story .... " its easy when you know how "..

but until you know how it can all get quite frustrating,

i have read articles on the toxin levels and how ( approximate ) the levels should pan out , and i seem to be getting some quite odd readings..compared to majority of keepers, if you are used to cycling tanks its easy to say... oh thats ok it will sort itself in a day or so and know that your 99% right, when your not used to doing it and are given " guide lines " only to find your figures are way different its confusing.

for example

the nitrite i had appear in my tank, before any fish were added , hence the questions about the rocks and plant matter. ( so thankyou for kind of clearing that up )


im learning...and trying my very best to ensure i do things the best way i can ...

and HELP ( as long as its correct ) is always very very welcomed

thanks

 

[plow]

Hey Border hows it going for ya with the demasonis?

Im in the same shoes about to put some fish in within the next few days, would be keen to hear how its going for ya.

I thought all your questions so far were spot on, I would have written exactly what you have done so far.

I also do not know if I should go for 12 or 1, I know some people have had no problems with a pair of demasonis.