Skirt Tetra Tank Mates

[ReidoDorito]

Hello!

I have an established 20g standard planted tank with eight skirt tetras (a mix of white, black, and a "GloTetra"), and I'd love to create a community. I've been looking into guppies, but I'm getting mixed information as to whether or not guppies can coexist with skirt tetras without being harassed.

Of course, I'm open to any other fish suggestions, as well. It may be that I don't have any more room, I don't know.

Does anybody have any advice regarding adding guppies in?

Thanks!

 

[NickAu]

What are your water parameters? Guppies need hard water.

Having said that, I would not add Guppies to a tank with Skirt Tetras if you want the Guppies to keep their tails.

 

[ReidoDorito]

What are your water parameters? Guppies need hard water.

Having said that, I would not add Guppies to a tank with Skirt Tetras if you want the Guppies to keep their tails.

I know it's pretty hard. Unfortunately, I'm unable to check right now, but I believe it's around 7.5.

Yeah, alright. I was just looking for a peaceful species to house with these guys. Any other ideas? Flame Gouramis sound awesome, but I'm not sure about them, given their bright coloration.

Thanks!

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

If you contact your water supply company (via their website or by telephone), they should be able to tell you what the general hardness (GH), carbonate hardness (KH) and pH is? They are all different and affect fish in different ways.

If the water company doesn't have this info or won't provide it to you, take a glass full of tap water to the local pet shop and ask them to test it for GH, KH and pH. Write the results down in numbers, when they do the test. Ask what the test is measured in (eg: ppm of dGH) because they have different meanings. Then post the results on here.

Post the tank dimensions (length x width x height) here too.

While at the pet shop you can make a list of fish you like and post them on here. We can go through the list and suggest possible combinations that might work in your tank.

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How long has the tank been running for?
How often do you do water changes and how much water do you change?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
How often do you clean the filter and how do you clean it?

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As mentioned by Nick, guppies require hard water that has a GH above 200ppm and a pH above 7.0

Black skirt tetras (aka black widow tetras) come from soft water with a GH below 100ppm and a pH below 7.0.

It is not recommended to mix the 2 species because of their different water requirements, and the black skirts are also renown fin nippers and will chew the tails off the guppies.

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Avoid dwarf gouramis (Trichogaster lalius) and all their colour forms (flame dwarf, coral blue, etc) because they carry 2 nasty diseases (the Iridovirus & Tuberculosis) that cannot be treated and will eventually kill them and possibly everything else in the tank. If you can get the fish from a local breeder they will probably be fine but do not buy them from a pet shop.

Everyone should avoid these fish until the Asian fish farmers get their act together and use clean stock in clean ponds.

 

[ReidoDorito]

Cool, thanks for the welcome!

I just tested the water in the tank. I hope that's alright! If not, I can get it tested elsewhere, if need be. The pH reading is 7.6, if not reeeeaaally close.

The tank dimensions are (l x w x h) 24 in. x 16.5 in. x 12 in.

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As far as fish I'm interested in, I'm really not picky. I love the dwarf gouramis, I think otto cats are really cool... cardinal tetras look amazing, as well. But, if possible, I'd like either a small school or single specimen of a fish. I love having one fish with a personality to interact with. I believe they call it a "centerpiece fish"...?

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The tank has been running for approximately four and a half months.

I clean it approximately (seems like I use that word a lot, lol) every one to two weeks, and more frequently if I see it getting dirty, and I do clean the gravel as well.

I've cleaned the filter about once thus far (is that bad?), but I do know that you're supposed to rinse it out in a separate container filled with tank water.

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My local fish store has several locations, but all within the same general area, so I think we're probably good there (I absolutely refuse to shop at PetSmart or Petco for living things aside from plants; they don't sell hardy critters). They get their fish from breeders throughout the state, and everything I've gotten from them has been great.


Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Byron]

A couple things, touched on already. First, the Black Skirt Tetra (Black Widow Tetra sometimes) is not a small fish when it reaches adulthood at 2.25 inches (some sources say 3 inches is possible). It also has a bit of a nasty disposition, and will fin nip any sedate fish. A group of eight in a standard 20 gallon tank is really pushing the boundaries of space. I would not get any other upper level fish. Some cories for the substrate level could work, a small group of 5-7.

On the water parameters, you have given us pH but as Colin explained there is the GH and KH. Of these three, GH is actually the most important for fish. GH is general or total hardness. You should be able to find this number on the website of your municipal water authority. You need to give us the unit of measurement they use too. The pH is OK.

 

[ReidoDorito]

Oh, shoot. My bad!
According to the city water quality report, the GH is 156.5 ppm and the KH is 216 MG/L.

And, as far as cories go, do you have any specific species in mind?

Thanks!

 

[Colin_T]

Your water seems a bit odd, normally the GH is higher than the KH.

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Filters should be cleaned at least once a month and preferably more often. Every 2 weeks is great if you can do it that often. And it is good that you wash the filter materials in a bucket of tank water. The filter case and impellor assembly can be washed under tap water.

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Try to do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate once a week. If you can get into a routine and do it every Sunday, then it is better for the fish because they will have cleaner water.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

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As for Corydoras and other fishes, go to the pet shop and make a list of fish you like. Then post it here and we can go through it and suggest things that should be ok together.

There are lots of different Cories so you need to look and see which ones you prefer. For the most part, they are all kept the same way and grow to a similar size.

 

[ReidoDorito]

Hmm... OK. Maybe I'll give them a call tomorrow. I'm pretty sure that's what the site said, but I'll double-check. Because that is weird.

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Alrighty, great. I need to start doing that during my water changes, then. (I know it may sound like I'm being sarcastic, but I promise, I'm not, lol.)

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Ooookeydokey. Guess I need to get on that, then, huh? I mean, these little guys don't produce a lot of waste, but the cleaner the water, the better, eh?

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Now, I suppose I should mention, the tank is fairly heavily planted, just in case that might come into play later. I've got Java Moss out the wazoo, and a couple Anubias congensis plants (big fan, by the way ).

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Hm... I really like otocinclus cats, like I said. But, if we're going for a strict cory and not just a bottom feeder, a peppered corydora sounds pretty cool. They sound like the only options for a 20g, I think. Everything else seems to require a bigger tank.

But, and I'm just curious, are we sure top dwellers are out of the question? It seems like my skirt tetras mostly inhabit the mid to bottom area of the tank during the day, but migrate upward at night.

 

[Colin_T]

Regular water changes not only help reduce nutrients like nitrates, they reduce the number of harmful microscopic organisms in the water. Aquarium fish live in a soup of bacteria, virus, fungus, protozoa and other things. The fish can tolerate low levels of these organisms but eventually they build up in numbers and start to affect the fish. Doing regular water changes helps dilute the organisms and keep the water cleaner so the fish remain healthier. A 75% water change dilutes these organisms more effectively than a 20-50% water change.

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You could probably have a couple of Otocinclus in the tank with the Cories and black skirts. Make sure you have some driftwood for the Otos to chew on and leave the light on a bit more to encourage algae to grow on the glass and the Otos can graze on that. If you don't want algae then get a bottom feeding pellet/ wafer for them to eat.

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The problem with surface dwelling fishes is they tend to just hang about under the surface and in a tank that is only 12 inches high, the tetras will see the fish up by the surface and probably pick at their fins. If the tank was 2 foot high then there would be more water between the tetras and the surface and it would be less of an issue.

If you had peaceful tetras that weren't renown as fin nippers, then there are small species of gourami (honey dwarf, sparkling, Indian banded) that could be kept. But I would not keep any surface dwelling fishes like gouramis in a small tank with skirt tetras.

 

[ReidoDorito]

Oop, son of a gun. I accidentally flipped the 12 in. and the 16.5 in. It's 16.5 in. high, and a foot wide. My bad!

Having said that, gouramis are still probably not the best fit, huh?

And the peppered cory sounds ok, then?

 

[Colin_T]

16 wide x 12 high would have been better, but never mind

16 high is still not high enough for surface dwellers. The water level won't be right up to the top and once you have a couple of inches of gravel in there, there will only be about 12 inches of water.

Peppered Cories should be fine

 

[Byron]

On thee cories...any of the commonly available species should be OK. Do you have sand or gravel for substrate? If gravel, what size? This matters to cories.

You cannot have sedate fish like gourami in with these fin nippers. I explained that.

The tetras would likely be higher in the water column if you get some floating plants. Most of the fish we keep are forest dwellers who live in very dimly-lit waters. Direct overhead lighting is unnatural, and some species find this more disturbing than others. But floating plants will always ease the fish.

 

[ReidoDorito]

The gravel is medium-sized (about a quarter of an inch in diameter), smooth pebbles, mixed in with slightly smaller pebbles of different shapes.

Yeah, I know the footprint of the tank is less than stellar, but whatever keeps them happy and healthy, I guess.

And, not that I mean to challenge you, Byron, don't get me wrong, but pretty much everything IveI read said these guys keep their nipping among themselves. Were yours prone to doing that? I'm just curious; don't get me wrong.

And as far as floating plants go, do you have any recommendations?

Thanks again!

 

[Byron]

The gravel is medium-sized (about a quarter of an inch in diameter), smooth pebbles, mixed in with slightly smaller pebbles of different shapes.

This is not a good substrate for cories, so that may not be an option here. There are some other interesting lower-level fish though. I am fond of the Whiptail Catfish, provided it is the smaller-sized species like Rineloricaria parva. This is a 4-5 inch fish but so thin you won't even realize it, and being sedate (not active swimming) it can be at home without larger spaces. Just avoid the "Royal" whiptails which are a different genus and very much larger. Here's data on the R.parva:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/rineloricaria-parva/

There is also a reddish/brown variety of this species that is near identical in behaviours and needs, and they all get along, at least my mix does. Usually seen as "Red Lizard Tail" or some such name. Some sources believe this is a distinct wild species from South America, but most accept that it was more probably developed by hobbyists in Germany, though the original parent species are unknown. It is a Loricarid, closely related to the species in Rineloricaria.

And, not that I mean to challenge you, Byron, don't get me wrong, but pretty much everything IveI read said these guys keep their nipping among themselves. Were yours prone to doing that? I'm just curious; don't get me wrong.

Species habitat and behaviour is an area I have researched extensively. It is true that the larger the group with many of the "nippy" species the less this may occur, and it may be confined to the species. But this has limits. And there is one further thing, and that is that placing any sedate fish--example gourami, angelfish, other cichlids, hatchetfish, and some tetras--in the tank is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. And here the tank size is crucial; the smaller the space, the more "annoyed" nippy fish tend to be. I mention this because this tetra species is really being crowded in a 20 gallon tank to begin with, so this only makes it more risky.

And as far as floating plants go, do you have any recommendations?

True floating plants with substance are best. Tiny floaters like duckweed can sometimes help but basically this is not going to do the job. Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta) is absolutely ideal and probably the best floating plant. Tropical Frogbit can work too. And Water Lettuce (Pistia stratiotes). Some stem plants can grow nice floating, and Pennywort is one of the best of these. Floating plants tend to be easier, since they are close to the light so that is not usually an issue, and being floating they can assimilate CO2 from the air which is four times faster, so they tend to be fast growing plants. I thin my Water Sprite out every couple of weeks during the water changes. Adventitious plants appear on alternate fronds (this is a true fern so it has fronds as leaves) and these can be separated as new plants and the larger parent plants discarded as needed.