Seeding tank

[zain611]

What is the best way of seeding a tank? I just got one of my sponges from my established 28 litre tank and squeezed it in my new tank (which just covered bit of my java fern in muck). I had a spare sponge which I had in the 28 litre filter and put that in the new tank.

 

[Colin_T]

Squeezing crap from an established filter does nothing. You are better off just take half the filter material from an established filter and putting it in a new filter on the new tank. Then top up both filters and your done. The filter bacteria on the old filter materials will grow rapidly and can double in number every couple of hours so it doesn't take them long to settle in.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I disagree. I 'instant cycle' by rinsing a sponge from an established tank in a new tank and add fish almost immediately. It works every time and better than "bacteria in a bottle". Now if the filters are the same, or similar enough, you could just install a sponge from one to the other, but that's not always the case. For example, I have Aquaclear 70's on my established 60g, but when I setup a 10g with a hamburg matten filter, there's no way to re-use a sponge. In another example, I setup a 110g [stock] tank outdoors this spring with a DIY box style filter. Again, I seeded it by rinsing a sponge from my 60g.

 

[Byron]

I won't argue the results you experienced as there could be other factors involved. But I am wondering how bacteria can be introduced by squeezing a filter sponge. Bacteria are sticky, and adhere to surfaces, and it is not at all easy to dislodge them:

But what about the impact of tank maintenance itself on aquarium bacteria? Bacteria grow on surfaces such as aquarium glass and gravel, so what happens when we scour the sides of a tank with an algae magnet, or clean the bottom with a gravel vacuum? I’ve been told on a number of occasions that vacuuming more than half the tank bottom at a time could remove so many bacteria that the system could go into a secondary cycle.

Nonsense, says Strom. He explained that within hours of the time the bacteria begin growing, they lay down what’s known as a biofilm (“we used to call it a slime, but ‘biofilm’ sounds much more scientific!” Strom jokes) essentially gluing themselves to whatever surface they’re growing on. Over time, this biofilm can get quite thick, and in streams and other fast-moving bodies of water, its outer layers are sometimes peeled away by the force of water passing over them. But the tug of water through an aquarium siphon is too weak to have that effect, and even if it did, there would still be plenty of bacteria left behind to handle the tank waste. “Powerwashing wouldn’t get them all off!” Strom assured me.​

The foregoing is from an article in TFH by Laura Muha, online here:
http://www.tfhmagazine.com/aquarium-basics/columns/nitrifying-bacteria.htm

"Strom" is Dr. Peter Strom, a professor of environmental sciences at Cook College in New Jersey who has been studying nitrifying bacteria in wastewater treatment for more than 30 years.

The bottled bacterial supplements are very effective:
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co...you-know-filter-bacteria-dream-on?rq=bacteria

 

[zain611]

Thanks guys. About 2 months back I put a spare sponge in my 28 litre tank's filter so that can get some bacteria on it before I'd place it in the new tank which I did just over a week ago. Kind of regret squeezing the last sponge from the old tank in the new as the java moss has got a little covered in muck. Might check ammonia levels tomorrow or the day after to make sure.

Is it good to put bottled bacteria in a tank with established tank bacteria? They don't compete do they? I've finished my 7 day dosing of seachem stability so just want to keep an eye on the parameters. Hopefully I've added a lot of beneficial bacteria in.

 

[seangee]

I won't argue the results you experienced as there could be other factors involved. But I am wondering how bacteria can be introduced by squeezing a filter sponge. Bacteria are sticky, and adhere to surfaces, and it is not at all easy to dislodge them:

I believe what you say is correct but I have also used this approach successfully. I can only assume that some bacteria is transferred along with some organic material to feed it.

It seems to kick start the cycle rather than create an instant cycle. On the occasion I did this I did do a fishless cycle but that completed within a week and I had no plants in the tank.

 

[zain611]

I believe what you say is correct but I have also used this approach successfully. I can only assume that some bacteria is transferred along with some organic material to feed it.

It seems to kick start the cycle rather than create an instant cycle. On the occasion I did this I did do a fishless cycle but that completed within a week and I had no plants in the tank.

That's still fast if it only took a week to cycle compared to several weeks if you cycled with no bacterial aid. My new tank is 100 litres more than my current tank which I will have to shut down so I'd used to worry how much harder water changes might be. Luckily it only takes about 20 minutes to empty out about half the water (about 60 litres) so motivates me to do water changes.

I am wanting to be cheeky and get several fish to put in the 28 litre whilst I can wait a bit and feel comfortable that I can transfer them in the new tank with good bacterial build up

 

[Byron]

I believe what you say is correct but I have also used this approach successfully. I can only assume that some bacteria is transferred along with some organic material to feed it.

It seems to kick start the cycle rather than create an instant cycle. On the occasion I did this I did do a fishless cycle but that completed within a week and I had no plants in the tank.

I have not delved into this issue all that much, so I can only surmise, but one thing that seems possible why this may "work" is that the stuff being squeezed out is organics, as you suggest. And the more organics, the more bacteria, and faster. So it is still not perhaps actual bacteria being introduced initially, but the essential food they need. Again, this is only surmise.

When I have the opportunity, I may go into this more with one of my pro friends like Neale Monks.

 

[AbbeysDad]

I won't argue the results you experienced as there could be other factors involved. But I am wondering how bacteria can be introduced by squeezing a filter sponge. Bacteria are sticky, and adhere to surfaces, and it is not at all easy to dislodge them:

And I've often wondered how we can setup a new tank, add some ammonia, and 6-8 weeks later we magically have a cycled tank from BB that fell out of the sky!
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Although not all the BB is released from the 'cleaned' sponge in the new tank, enough apparently is to start a new colony. I didn't invent the process or the term 'instant cycle', but I've done it many, many times and it always works for me.
Actually, there are a couple of 'secrets' to the success...
1> The 'dirty' sponge releases some bacteria and decomposed organic matter.
2> The under stocked fish initially added [also] input BB in their waste.
3> The ammonia initially introduced by a few fish is diluted by the sheer volume of new, fresh water in the tank, and does not over power the now growing BB colony.
4> IF there are also plants, these further reduce any negative impact of ammonia generated.
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The potential problem with bacteria in a bottle products (and I think why they get such bad press) is because transport and storage is not well controlled. BB is resilient, but they are living creatures that can all too easily be destroyed with poor handling and storage.

 

[Colin_T]

And I've often wondered how we can setup a new tank, add some ammonia, and 6-8 weeks later we magically have a cycled tank from BB that fell out of the sky!...
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The potential problem with bacteria in a bottle products (and I think why they get such bad press) is because transport and storage is not well controlled. BB is resilient, but they are living creatures that can all too easily be destroyed with poor handling and storage.

The filter bacteria do literally fall out of the sky. They float around the atmosphere and land all over the place, but they only take up residence in water and start growing when it contains ammonia.

The reason most filters take a month to cycle is because it takes time for the bacteria to get into the house and then into the tank. Once they get in there they start to multiply but it takes a few weeks to really get their numbers up. Tight fitting coverglass and really clean houses can make it harder for the bacteria to get inside the tank and settle in.

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The bottles of filter bacteria contain dormant bacteria that become activated when added to water with an ammonia source. Theoretically, as long as the bottles are kept cool, the bacteria can last for years in a dormant state.

 

[AbbeysDad]

The filter bacteria do literally fall out of the sky. They float around the atmosphere and land all over the place, but they only take up residence in water and start growing when it contains ammonia.

Ever wonder how that super sticky aquatic bacteria gets into the sky?
And why is it so hard to believe that bacteria can be seeded between tanks by 'cleaning' the sponge(s) to inoculate the new water and subsequently the filter?
(Both questions rhetorical - I've done this many, many times and it always works!)
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The bottles of filter bacteria contain dormant bacteria that become activated when added to water with an ammonia source. Theoretically, as long as the bottles are kept cool, the bacteria can last for years in a dormant state.

Exactly! I believe that in transport and storage (trucks and warehouses) they are often exposed to high temperatures that kill the bacteria. This may be worse in the summer and/or in climates with higher ambient temperatures (As most trucks and warehouses are not air conditioned). This would help explain why some folks write in forums that Product X is great and others claim it's garbage and not worth the money.

 

[zain611]

I just tested my water and heres the result:
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrites - 0ppm
Nitrates - seems to be 0ppm

Is this normal? Tank has been set up for nearly two weeks now however I did have to drain most of the water out to move it and adjust the cabinet which was 2 days. I placed most of the filter media in my 28 litre whilst the new tank wasn't filled with water.

 

[Byron]

I just tested my water and heres the result:
Ammonia - 0ppm
Nitrites - 0ppm
Nitrates - seems to be 0ppm

Is this normal? Tank has been set up for nearly two weeks now however I did have to drain most of the water out to move it and adjust the cabinet which was 2 days. I placed most of the filter media in my 28 litre whilst the new tank wasn't filled with water.

Yes, this is normal given the information you've given us previously. The plants are taking up ammonia, perhaps slowly if only plants like Java Fern, but this is one factor. You probably got some bacteria going with the organics if nothing else from the old sponge. And I assume you are not adding artificial "ammonia" which is certainly not advisable with plants and seeding. So all of these factors together would mean zero ammonia and nitrite. Nitrate is more variable, dependent upon organics like fish load primarily, but would normally be zero and may appear when fish are present though depending upon the fish and the plants, nitrates can remain zero.

 

[zain611]

Yes, this is normal given the information you've given us previously. The plants are taking up ammonia, perhaps slowly if only plants like Java Fern, but this is one factor. You probably got some bacteria going with the organics if nothing else from the old sponge. And I assume you are not adding artificial "ammonia" which is certainly not advisable with plants and seeding. So all of these factors together would mean zero ammonia and nitrite. Nitrate is more variable, dependent upon organics like fish load primarily, but would normally be zero and may appear when fish are present though depending upon the fish and the plants, nitrates can remain zero.

I have 5 danios at the moment in the tank and that's probably small for a 130 litre. I try to feed them once or twice a day to help the bacteria feed on the waste. No use of artificial ammonia as I had the thought of seeding the bacteria in. One of my sponges I put in my small 28 litre filter I placed in the new tank when I setted it up to jump start the process. Only plants I have is a pot of valisneria and the leaves of that are just detaching. Also have java moss which I don't know if they take in Nitrates. If the parameters stay low I might see in getting some cardinal tetras in a weeks time.

Is there a certain part of the tank which I should get the samples of water from?

 

[zain611]

I'm just wondering now if I should get 6 cardinal tetras but put them in the 28 litre for about a week or two before placing them in the new tank . I have 2 amano shrimps in the 28 litres which hopefully are feeding the bioload of the filter so could transfer them in the new tank if I get cardinals to put in there.