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Rotkeil Or Red Headed Severum

Discussion in 'New World Cichlids' started by WittLace, Jul 3, 2011.

  1. WittLace

    WittLace Member

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    I am fairly new to fish keeping. I have a 29 gallon currently running with 2 green severum. I love them! I got them without knowing how big they would get. They are still fairly small (1-2 inches). I am interested in a bigger tank and also in different types of severum. What is the difference between rotkeil and red headed??? I cant figure out if they go by 2 names and are the same kind of fish or if they are different. I want a pair of rotkeil when I get a bigger tank of course. I have no idea where I would get them though. The lfs here is so-so. I am in Virginia. Any info would be helpful. Thanks!
     
  2. minnnt

    minnnt Fish Whisperer

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    Green sevs get quite big mate, 29 gallon will stunt their growth in a big way imo. You need a bigger tank before they hit 4" I reckon. Rotkeils are the same as the red shouldered severum or at least very close. Rotkeils would be ok in a 4ft long tank and the greens/gold/red spotted would need 5ft to be fair to them. They also need quite a deep tank as they are very deep bodied.
     
  3. ChilliPepper

    ChilliPepper Fish Herder

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    +1
     
  4. star4

    star4 Member

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    The red shouldered severum Heros efasciatus sp red shoulder grows larger than the heros severus sp. Rotkeil. Not a huge amount of difference visually, between the two but on the male red shoulder the facial markings have more lines than spots than on the male Rotkeil. Rotkeils also tend to be smaller at around 6-8". There are a lot of people selling "rotkeils" at the moment that are red-shoulder's and visa versa. Very difficult to tell when buying juvi fish, you would need to see the parents.
     
  5. WittLace

    WittLace Member

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    I am definitely planning to get a bigger tank as I have learned (from reading on this forum) that they get large. I have an add on Craigslist and am going to look at one in the next couple of days. They are funny fish and I like keeping them.
     
  6. hamfist

    hamfist Member

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    ABsolutely spot on !
     
  7. Wills

    Wills Moderator
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    Agreed as well :) I can kind of tell the difference between Orange Shoulders and Rotkiels, Orange Shoulders are a more square fish with more lateral compression ie longer than they are square/round? Dont know if anyone else has observed this? Also I have noticed in shops that Orange Shoulders have longer trailing Ventral Fins

    Wills
     
  8. GShorty1981

    GShorty1981 Member

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    As far as i knew, Rotkeils and Red Shoulders are the same thing, Orange Shoulders are different
     
  9. acreteos

    acreteos Member

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    may I add Rotkeil means red neck in German, a lot of the time rotkeils are labelled as red necked or red neck, red shoulder etc. so beware of being ripped off.

    I have also kept Rotkeil, super red, gold, and a green severum. They all tend to get the same size and have the same personality, Rotkeils aren't any different other than colouration.

    Heres mine

    young
    [​IMG]
    older
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. GShorty1981

    GShorty1981 Member

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    That middle photo is not yours, it belongs to a guy on MFK....unless this is you under a different name.
     
  11. Wills

    Wills Moderator
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    I have to disagree Actreteos, Rotkiels do indeed stay smaller than Efasticous. If your Rotkiels got to the same size as Efasticous (Greens and Golds) then you would have the Orange Shoulder thats in question here.

    Within the Heros species there are 3 recognised complexes - similar to the differences between the three Geophagus complexes. I know it has something to do with the anal fin that splits them but the indication of the anal fin tends to dictate the patterns in the size of the Heros species. It groups Heros Severus and Rotkiel along with a few other undescribed species and strains together, then Apendectulatus, Efasticious, Notatus and a few other undescribed species and then in the third is Spirius (spelling) and further more undescribed species.

    Red necks in Severums are not an uncommon thing so there are quite a few strains in the hobby now and I bet different strains appear differently between UK and USA and even UK and Europe.

    True Rotkiels will not get over 8 inches though, where as Efasticious will getting up towards 12 inches and a lot thicker and meatier.

    Wills
     
  12. star4

    star4 Member

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    I kept and bred rotkeils, they do not get bigger than 8" no where near the size of the Efasticous. I have red spot, gold and Belem, all are much larger than my mature rotkeil.
     
  13. ChilliPepper

    ChilliPepper Fish Herder

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    I also disagree - Sevs do not all have the same personalities. What a sweeping statement.
    For example, my Red Spot has far more personality than my Rotkeils. Dunno why. Also find Greens do too. Efasticous tend to wiggle their fins, swim in funny directions, and get in hormonal tantrums :lol:

    Rotkeils don't get to their size either. They are much thinner bodied too. My Red Spot is a chunk of a fish and my Rotkeils much more slender.
     
  14. acreteos

    acreteos Member

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    yes I am on MFK too, didn't think anyone would realise just from one photo lol.
    so that's that cleared up.

    Wills, I didn't know that it's really interesting thanks for sharing, so you think that the fish I had was a red shoulder? may I add that it was part of a wild caught pair, so it is possible they got the name wrong.

    Chillipepper, this is what i have found personally after keeping all of the types of severum, obviously it differs from keeper to keeper, and I'm glad others have had different experiences to me, the only thing I will say about the types of severum is that the Golds I had were a lot more aggressive but that could have been down to the individual fish, not the colour strain :)
     
  15. Wills

    Wills Moderator
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    Ah right really interesting!! Any idea of catch location? As I say, colouration around the shoulders is not that rare in Heros and there are a number of regional variants that have it distributed quite diversely. In a recent practical fish keeping Hieko Bleher did an article and listed three or four Heros species that all had red necks but were all listed as different species rather than just one - though they were undescribed they came in under sp.1 sp.2 etc etc.

    Interesting for an other reason though, given the some what unpredictable movements of many of the fishermen there is a good chance that there are now so many red shouldered severums in the hobby rather than straight Rotkiel that they may not even be importing the true Rotkiel any more....

    Wills
     

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