Roots, Roots And More Roots

[rms]

Hi,
 
My plants seem to be going mad about rooting. My stems and anubius  just keep sprouting them all up the main stem. Is this normal or is it a sign of something I'm doing wrong?
 
I'm running a 125L high tech with ei ferts and 2x 18w t8's. Algae is virtually zero, but my plants are struggling to give off the lush colours they should.
 
Thanks
 
 

 

[three-fingers]

Sounds normal, more roots = more shoots

. Hopefully you've got some monster Anubias to look forward to

.  Lush colours like...what they used to have?  What's you reference for what you think they should look like? I take it by "high tech", your using pressurised CO2 and monitoring with a drop checker, have 10x tank volume flow rate per hour, and when you say "EI ferts", you mean dry salts using the EI dosing method? Which dry salts exactly are you using and how often? 
 
 
Which plants would you say aren't looking right? Some pics may help but it's going to be hard to tell as the colour will depend on your camera and my screen.
 
Another thing could be your T8 tubes colour isn't suited to your tastes, so if the plants are actually healthy I would suggest maybe changing tubes to something different.

 

[daizeUK]

I'm not the greatest expert but I have noticed that my hygrophila polysperma did not root up the stem when it was happy but after a carbon shortage in the tank it started sprouting roots like mad, all along the stem.  Since I increased the carbon the rooting behaviour has stopped again.
 
I have also heard it said that rooting is a sign of an unhappy plant but I couldn't tell you why.  I think anubias is different though, mine sends out trailers all the time.

 

[rms]

Yes I have pressurised co2 with drop checker, which practically glows bright green (unlike my plants 

), so I suppose my co2 levels are good. I'm using salts and trace elements from The Nutrient Company. I'm dosing daily, 5 days per week, as per instructions. 2 days off followed by a 50% water change on the first day of starting the 5 day dosing. My filtration is more than adaquate, I have a Fluval U3 and a crappy Chinese big enough for my tank as well. I use that one for co2 defusion as well as for use in quarantine/hospital tank when needed. My drop checker is placed in the hardest to reach part of the tank for water flow, so I know filtration and circulation are not an issue.
 
My water is quite hard at 53.7kh and 143.2gh (API liquid test kit). ph is 6.9. Tank is cycled and nitrates are currently at 10.
 
 
 
 
 
 

Here are a couple more pics. For some reason I couldn't add them to the post above...
 
 

Oh.... The lighting should be fine. I have two Phillips TL-D 18W. Please tell me they are fine... 

 

[three-fingers]

Yes I have pressurised co2 with drop checker, which practically glows bright green (unlike my plants 

), so I suppose my co2 levels are good.

 
Unfortunately, this may not be the case. Drop checkers are just a rough guide, and can very often be wrong. Plus, they only show you CO2 in one point of the tank - and obviously not at the exact point it matters most and will be at its lowest - around the plants.
 

 
I'm using salts and trace elements from The Nutrient Company. I'm dosing daily, 5 days per week, as per instructions. 2 days off followed by a 50% water change on the first day of starting the 5 day dosing.

You mentioned your nitrates are only at 10ppm - this indicates to me that your not dosing that much KNO3. I'm not familiar with TNC's dry salt instructions, but they are likely on the conservative side. This article should clear some things up

: http/www.ukaps.org/index.php?page=dosing-with-dry-salts .
 
 

My filtration is more than adequate, I have a Fluval U3 and a crappy Chinese big enough for my tank as well. I use that one for co2 diffusion as well as for use in quarantine/hospital tank when needed. My drop checker is placed in the hardest to reach part of the tank for water flow, so I know filtration and circulation are not an issue.
 

 
Ah, but filtration is not the issue. Its the distribution of oxygen, CO2 and all other nutrient to the plants. From your pictures, I can tell that you don't have nearly enough flow from the debris in the brown diatoms growing on the plants leaves. You don't mention the volume of your tank, but the Fluval U3 provides a laminar flow of well under 600lph if it contains media, or a very low flow from a spraybar. The same for the Chinese filter - the pumps lph rating is very optimistic in the first place, and doesn't account for the media in it, and only provides a laminar flow, or a greatly reduced flow from a spraybar.
 
Most high tech planted tanks nowadays feature modern circulation pumps, like Hydor Koralia or Fluval Sea pumps. These provide a massive flow rate, but spread over a much wider area so its not a problem for fish and it distributes CO2 more evenly.
 
As I've just mentioned in another thread, low flow is one of the most common reasons people have poor plant growth or algae issues.
 
 

Oh.... The lighting should be fine. I have two Phillips TL-D 18W. Please tell me they are fine... 

2 X 18W of any type if absolutely perfect for the plants

. Though I have no idea about the appearance of those tubes to the human eye, is there no more details on the tube? TL-D is a whole product range of Phillips T8 tubes - from fly-attractors to meat-display tubes, so need to know more details really. Could you maybe take a picture of any writing on the bulb, or type it?
 
But what you need is certainly more flow (I'd highly recommend a circulation pump for Christmas

 ), and possibly upping the dosage of ferts if that EI article helps at all

.  Also, increasing CO2 slightly may help a little too, but do this very slowly and watch the reaction of the fish very carefully. It may not be worth doing this until you improve flow, however.

 

[rms]

My co2 drop checker is the opposite end from where it enters the tank, close to the bottom and amongst my Egeria. I thought that might be a good place as the plants are at their thickest there. I will increase the co2 gradually as you suggest though. I've shuffled my filters around a bit, and added another smaller one. I did this to counteract the flow rate sending my plants on a right slant. Now they are swaying back and fourth. I've scrutinized every plant and there is now a steady flow and a gentle sway all through the tank. 
 
The tubes are Phillips Aquarelle's. From what I gather they are highly regarded for plants, relative to their cost. I am quite sure now that lighting wasn't an issue. Flow rate seems to have been the culperate, but only time will tell. Maybe they are just unhappy because of that, as you suggest daizeUK.
 
My tank is 125l and I don't use spray bars. I usually have the output nozzle close to the surface, which gives the tank enough surface agitation. Perhaps that was contributing to poor circulation. I've taken this into account and the U3 output will be adjusted evenings to ensure this continues and I don't suffocate the fish at night.
 
I'm dosing according to the 100 to 150 litre guide line. The instructions state that each guide aims at the middle of the two measurements so my tank should be bang on. I'm also dosing heaped spoons, not flat so I am marginally over. I need peace and quiet to fully digest that article and will give it the attention it deserves later. My nitrate was tested right after a 50% water change, which might explain why it was that low. If I'm perfectly honest I haven't been testing them just before the water change so I can't say what they were. 
 
Thanks for the pointers and advice. I'll start a new thread in a few weeks, hopefully a more positive one

 

[three-fingers]

The tubes are Phillips Aquarelle's. From what I gather they are highly regarded for plants, relative to their cost. I am quite sure now that lighting wasn't an issue.

Lighting isn't an issue for the plants at all, however, those tubes are 10000k, in other words, put out quite a lot of light in the blue spectrum. This could be why the plants aren't the colour you expect them to be - most freshwater aquarims use "warmer" colour tubes of a lower K rating.  Your 10000k bulbs are ideally meant for a marine tank as they are more suited for viewing the colours of corals ect..  The plants don't care at all about the colour or brand of bulb as long as the light is intense enough.
 
For best visual results, I would suggest removing one of the Aquarelles and replacing it with a "warm white" 4000k bulb (can be found in B&Q for £3 or around £6 posted online).  Mixing the two tubes would give you a wider colour spectrum and will enhance the appearance of the plants. Have a look at this article: http/www.theplantedtank.co.uk/lighting.htm .  It talks about T5 tubes, but the exact same applies to T8 tubes

.
 

Thanks for the pointers and advice. I'll start a new thread in a few weeks, hopefully a more positive one

Hope it all goes well and good luck!

 

[rms]

This is extremely annoying. Not what you said, but the I thought I'd found a new LFS that was more in tune with the customer. I specifically mentioned warm white tubes, pointing at them on display behind the counter. He asked what they were for and I explained. "These are what you want" he said, disappearing behind a door and returning with the aquarelles. Honestly...!!
 
Anyway, thanks for the link. Very helpful. Again...