Reducing Nitrate Without Water Changes

[merlinblack]

Hi folks

I hope I'm posting in the right section but I normally use reptile forum uk and not very familiar with this site.

So here goes I've kept tropical fish for over 20 years but I'm looking to get a better understanding of how others maintain their water quality to see if I can learn something and share what I already know or think I know.
I must admit to neglecting my fish a bit and follow a low maintainance approach. I'd like to know how people keep their nitrates etc low and do they do it by a huge amount of water changes or do they do it using plant growth, filter media or a mixture of both?

Thanks

Stan

 

[the biffster]

the only real way to reduce nitrate
and keep them low is by water changes
i am afraid to tell you i have over the
years tried a number of resins poly filters
sponges and stuff like that but always come back
to the water change there is no substitute
even if you do use the stuff i mentioned you still
have to do water changes sorry

 

[fluttermoth]

You can keep nitrates low using plants, but you have to have a huge amount of plants and a very, very small amount of fish.
It would make a rather dull tank to look at, I think.
I prefer to have more fish and do more water changes; most of my tanks get a 50% a week change. I've never tried any of the alleged nitrate removing resins or anything like that, so can't comment myself, but I'll take Biffster's word for it that they don't work

 

[SlyPolak]

I have heard of filter media that is meant to remove nitrates, but that same media will leech nitrates if left in the filter for too long... I personally have a routine of water changes, water changes, water changes........ I change anywhere from 30% - 50% of water on all my tanks every wednesday... even on my fully planted tank I still change atleast 30% of water weekly....... In my eyes if you are too "lazy" to do certain up keep on an aquarium, DO NOT GET AN AQUARIUM......
Its like getting a dog and not walking it letting it #101## and #105### all over........

 

[retro mjm]

loads of plants and not much light. For a low tech planted tank its often best not to do water changes as this effects co2 concentration greatly and other instabilities which can promote algae growth. I ran a tank that was low tech and did only water changes at night and only when the internal filter needed cleaning so ended up being once a month and only about 20% max. I had no algae and no ammonia or nitrite. Nitrates need very high ppm to actually harm fish, iirc around 300ppm before it starts to get dangerous and if its that high either something is despiratly wrong or all your values are rediculusly high.

Nitrate test kits are not very accurate anyway

 

[merlinblack]

I have heard of filter media that is meant to remove nitrates, but that same media will leech nitrates if left in the filter for too long... I personally have a routine of water changes, water changes, water changes........ I change anywhere from 30% - 50% of water on all my tanks every wednesday... even on my fully planted tank I still change atleast 30% of water weekly....... In my eyes if you are too "lazy" to do certain up keep on an aquarium, DO NOT GET AN AQUARIUM......
Its like getting a dog and not walking it letting it #101## and #105### all over........

I've not done a water change for ages, I tend to do like a 60-70% water change every few months using about 4 parts RO to 1 part tap water as I live in a hard water area. I pull out my floating plants by the bucket load every month or so but the tank hasn't looked as healthy lately.
I've been running the RO unit to collect some water over the past week to collect enough water for this water change but I think it will be too cold to get anything out of it from now on till the spring.

I've tested the water today and the nitrate was 10ppm but then I've checked with a different test kit and its over 100ppm, I'm a bit shocked at the second test result but the new fish i got recently don't seem to be growing anymore so I'm a bit concearned.

The filter media I tried in the past I think was called denitrate made by seachem if I remember right. its a porous gravel, it instructs to use in a low flow filter so I had it in a box filter. I think the science behind it was that it grows anerobic bacteria which convert the nitrate to nitrogen and will keep the nitrate level down to about 5ppm once its established after a week or so. It worked as it described acording to my nitrate kit, it came down from a highish level to 5ppm so I'm going to dig it out and run with it again and see how it goes.

Thanks for the comments everyone and please keep them coming

 

[drobbyb]

Water changes are important! They serve more than just to remove nitrates, in fact water changes replenish the trace minerals that are used up and they also remove some of the other compounds and toxins that we do not test for. There are literally hundreds of compounds that build up in your tank. If you want your fish to grow fast, twice weekly water changes and good quality food will go a long way. For example, in my grow out tanks, I change the water twice a week with a volume of 50%. The fry I have in my main tank that only gets a water change once a week are roughly 2/3 the size of the fry in my grow out tank. They get fed the same diet and have similar conditions. The only difference is the increased water changes.

Fish secrete a hormone that limits their growth in a high population density. The longer between water changes, the more the hormone builds up, the slower the growth rate.

 

[merlinblack]

Water changes are important! They serve more than just to remove nitrates, in fact water changes replenish the trace minerals that are used up and they also remove some of the other compounds and toxins that we do not test for. There are literally hundreds of compounds that build up in your tank. If you want your fish to grow fast, twice weekly water changes and good quality food will go a long way. For example, in my grow out tanks, I change the water twice a week with a volume of 50%. The fry I have in my main tank that only gets a water change once a week are roughly 2/3 the size of the fry in my grow out tank. They get fed the same diet and have similar conditions. The only difference is the increased water changes.

Fish secrete a hormone that limits their growth in a high population density. The longer between water changes, the more the hormone builds up, the slower the growth rate.

I used to have pair of aluminium catfish and they bred, I hadn't intended breeding them or anything but they spawned and I succesfully raised 700 babies which were pretty difficult to sell. I gave them lots of water changes due to the huge number of fish I had.

How do you people go about doing a 50% water change? How do you get all that water warmed to the correct temp? for me its a bit of a nightmare slopping it everywhere. I currently have 4 25 litre buckets stood against the radiator, a 64L really useful box with a heater in and a dustbin in the back yard full of water, all this is RO. I'll add the odd bucket here and there from the tap when I do the water change to add some hardness. If I just use only water from the tap then the plants will die and the fish will be stunted from the hardness anyway so have to use the RO which takes a full day to give me 15-20 gallons and I have a 100 gallon and a 35 gallon tank.

So has nobody tried the denitrate or similar product? I'm not aiming to stop water changes just help with maintaining the quality.

 

[drobbyb]

It's called a Nospill by Python. You attach it directly to your sink's faucet and you control the temperature by mixing hot/cold water from the tap. I haven't carried a bucket of water in 10 years

 

[merlinblack]

It's called a Nospill by Python. You attach it directly to your sink's faucet and you control the temperature by mixing hot/cold water from the tap. I haven't carried a bucket of water in 10 years

I've just had a look at that, it looks great but the trouble is I'm over in the UK and my faucet doesn't have the piece with a thread on so I'm unable to attach it, its a pity as it would have made it so easy.

 

[Javious]

Hi folks

I hope I'm posting in the right section but I normally use reptile forum uk and not very familiar with this site.

So here goes I've kept tropical fish for over 20 years but I'm looking to get a better understanding of how others maintain their water quality to see if I can learn something and share what I already know or think I know.
I must admit to neglecting my fish a bit and follow a low maintainance approach. I'd like to know how people keep their nitrates etc low and do they do it by a huge amount of water changes or do they do it using plant growth, filter media or a mixture of both?

Thanks

Stan

I'm definitely a rookie at this but am able to control nitrates nicely with plants. My stock is 4x Gold/3 spot Gourami, 5x Polka Dot Loach, 18x Neon Tetra and 3x Oto's. I used plant bulbs and 4 of them sprouted and have grown quite nicely. I never could get the proper names correct, they were purchased at Wal Mart. I have a single Lily that has broad reddish leaves and three that looked like grass for quite a while but then spouted long wide leaves with a wavy edge. I planted the bulbs after my filter was cycled and the Nitrate levels started to climb. By the time the plants started looking like plants instead of spouts my Nitrate level was reading very low, a dark gold on the API Freshwater kit. I had been getting orange to red readings, so I know that the test kit was working. Accuracy of course is something else. It was total luck with how many bulbs sprouted and the chemistry result, but I have been happy with the natural foilage in my tank. The plants continue to grow and look healthy, I have seen some evidence of nibbling by the fish, but not much damage at all.

Even so I still do weekly water changes, roughly 30 - 40%. It takes me that long to vacuum the substrate so that is how much I siphon out. This is probably more water than I need to change, but it is convenient.

 

[SlyPolak]

Those bulbs you got from wally world are a Hybrid Aponogeton and some kind of dwarf lily... they might look nice now but thats because their mainly feeding off of their bulbs.. in a few months(3/4) you will see die back whenever they just start feeding from the tank......

I say the best way to reduce Nitrate is WATER CHANGES!! ubless you want a tank full of plants and one fish

 

[Bignose]

You can keep nitrates low using plants, but you have to have a huge amount of plants and a very, very small amount of fish.
It would make a rather dull tank to look at, I think.

ubless you want a tank full of plants and one fish

This myth just doesn't seem to want to die. You can have a very large number of fish -- the real key is in keeping the plants healthy and growing. To keep the plants healthy, they need a steady source of nitrogen -- like a great deal of fish!

Please take a look at some of Diana Walstad's work. She has tanks with no filters that are down right over stocked -- 55 gallon tanks with 80 guppies in it. 55 gallon tanks with 60-70 rainbowfish in them. etc. The plants ARE the filters in these cases. She shows that a lot of the "normal" rules can be broken, if done correctly. For example, she places her tanks so that they get many hours of sunlight each day -- helps the plants be healthy. Diana has an excellent book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium.

 

[merlinblack]

Hi folks

I hope I'm posting in the right section but I normally use reptile forum uk and not very familiar with this site.

So here goes I've kept tropical fish for over 20 years but I'm looking to get a better understanding of how others maintain their water quality to see if I can learn something and share what I already know or think I know.
I must admit to neglecting my fish a bit and follow a low maintainance approach. I'd like to know how people keep their nitrates etc low and do they do it by a huge amount of water changes or do they do it using plant growth, filter media or a mixture of both?

Thanks

Stan

I'm definitely a rookie at this but am able to control nitrates nicely with plants. My stock is 4x Gold/3 spot Gourami, 5x Polka Dot Loach, 18x Neon Tetra and 3x Oto's. I used plant bulbs and 4 of them sprouted and have grown quite nicely. I never could get the proper names correct, they were purchased at Wal Mart. I have a single Lily that has broad reddish leaves and three that looked like grass for quite a while but then spouted long wide leaves with a wavy edge. I planted the bulbs after my filter was cycled and the Nitrate levels started to climb. By the time the plants started looking like plants instead of spouts my Nitrate level was reading very low, a dark gold on the API Freshwater kit. I had been getting orange to red readings, so I know that the test kit was working. Accuracy of course is something else. It was total luck with how many bulbs sprouted and the chemistry result, but I have been happy with the natural foilage in my tank. The plants continue to grow and look healthy, I have seen some evidence of nibbling by the fish, but not much damage at all.

Even so I still do weekly water changes, roughly 30 - 40%. It takes me that long to vacuum the substrate so that is how much I siphon out. This is probably more water than I need to change, but it is convenient.

We'll if its working then why stop, you cant always trust what the test kits tell you, I've tested with one and the reading was at the bottom of the scale and then checked with a different brand of kit and the nitrate was through the roof. I hadn't been doing water changes after the first kit told me everything was fine, my floating plant was still growing like crazy but I was getting quite a bit of algae and the fish were stunted which is why I checked the with the second test kit, the first one must have gone off or just been rubbish to begin with, it was still well within its use by date though. with your water change regime you should be fine though

 

[merlinblack]

You can keep nitrates low using plants, but you have to have a huge amount of plants and a very, very small amount of fish.
It would make a rather dull tank to look at, I think.

This myth just doesn't seem to want to die. You can have a very large number of fish -- the real key is in keeping the plants healthy and growing. To keep the plants healthy, they need a steady source of nitrogen -- like a great deal of fish!

Please take a look at some of Diana Walstad's work. She has tanks with no filters that are down right over stocked -- 55 gallon tanks with 80 guppies in it. 55 gallon tanks with 60-70 rainbowfish in them. etc. The plants ARE the filters in these cases. She shows that a lot of the "normal" rules can be broken, if done correctly. For example, she places her tanks so that they get many hours of sunlight each day -- helps the plants be healthy. Diana has an excellent book Ecology of the Planted Aquarium.

I bought the book and read it from cover to cover. I don't have the tanks set up with soil in the substrate yet as my house currently up for sale so waiting till I move before I do the substrate. I do have some plants in pot with organic miracle grow compost in, they did well for a while but then I got lots of furry algae and they didnt grow much after that. The floating plants continued to grow like mental, I took masses of them out, they were climbing out of the tank and about 6" thick and I was measuring the water at 10ppm but I've checked against another test kit and the nitrate is sky high. I have some young fish too and they've stopped growing so looks like they will be stunted from now on. I checked with the water authaurity what the Nitrate content of my tap water is and its about 15 ppm. My dodgy test kit shows 0 ppm but my other kit shows it to be between 10 and 20 so reading correctly, its this test kit that has shown blood red top of scale 160ppm.
I'm now aiming for a mixture of Walstad method and plenty of water changes to make sure the nitrate is always where it should be. You can get away with neglecting old full grown fish as you don't see any signs of ill effect but with young fish they need low nitrate otherwise they end up stunted. I also have some silver sharks that should grow to 12 - 15" and they've stopped growing at 3" and will no doubt now have a shorter life.