Ram cichlid advice and tank stocking. please help!

[exhoudos]

Hey guys, first post on this forum. I'm an amateur for the most part with a few years experience, i lack alot of knowledge on many things as i mostly learned from my own tanks rather than doing much research. At any rate, we just got our own place and started a tank for the first time in years. Its 20g high, 78-79 degree range and ph 6.5. I have a crab of unspecified species(was in tank with bunch of guppies and tetras at store, so please tell me what it is!), I have 2 german or bolivian rams(store lady didnt specify), one green/emerald tiger barb, and one pleco. I have been feeding them bloodworms only and the pleco algae discs. The problem is that one of the rams has completed conquered this tank, chasing and restricting food from the other ram, and also chases the barb. The barb does not seem affected at all, she's perfectly healthy and many times wont respond to the aggression of the dominant ram. The pleco is healthy, and the crab is thriving. The ram that is being chased appears near death at this point from the stress of being bullied so ferociously. Not sure what to do at this point. I dont know if this means my tank is over stocked or if i picked the wrong mates. Any advice on what to stock this tank with? Or how to proceed with a ram tank. I will say that despite the frustration of the dominant ram, it is a very very beautiful and personable fish so we would like to keep it as our centerpiece specimen. Thank you for your help! I added a pic of the crab and 2 pictures of the dominant ram in the tank.

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

You have some issues/problems I'll try to sort out and explain.

First, the crab...I know next to nothing about crustaceans so I can only say it is not recommended to keep a crab in with fish.

To the rams, the photo shows the Bolivian Ram (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus). I believe it is a male, but this is not easy to discern. Males are territorial; sometimes females can be too. This fish should be kept in solitude, meaning just one in the tank, unless the tank is much larger. Two males will not get along, one will be dead within weeks; same can happen with females sometimes. A male/female "pair" must select each other and bond, or they will not get along for long and one (usually the female) will be dead before many weeks. I personally would not keep one of this species in a 20g high, but it is "possible," sometimes. Certainly not two, esp as they are clearly showing signs of not getting along. Return the one being picked on and keep the "aggressor" if you want one.

Barbs and tetras [also applies to danios and rasboras and some catfish like cories] are shoaling fish, so there must be a group of the species. Tank size impacts this obviously. I would re-home the barb (meaning, take it back to the store) as a 20g is not sufficient space for a group of this species. They must be in groups of 10+, in a 30g tank minimum, alone. With other species, they need more space. Left alone, shoaling fish inevitably become aggressive, it's only a matter of time. This barb will at some point start nipping the fins of the Ram and worse.

I don't know what the tetras are, but again they need a group of at least six for each species, maybe more depending upon the species. A 20g could house one or two or three tetra species, depending which species. I would not get any more until we have sorted out the species.

Never acquire any fish without researching everything about the species. We cannot change what evolution has programmed into the species DNA.

Edit addition...we need to know the water parameters of your tap water, primarily the GH (general or total hardness) and secondarily the pH. Many species have preferences/needs.

Hope this helps.

Byron.

 

[exhoudos]

Welcome to TFF.

You have some issues/problems I'll try to sort out and explain.

First, the crab...I know next to nothing about crustaceans so I can only say it is not recommended to keep a crab in with fish.

To the rams, the photo shows the Bolivian Ram (Mikrogeophagus altispinosus). I believe it is a male, but this is not easy to discern. Males are territorial; sometimes females can be too. This fish should be kept in solitude, meaning just one in the tank, unless the tank is much larger. Two males will not get along, one will be dead within weeks; same can happen with females sometimes. A male/female "pair" must select each other and bond, or they will not get along for long and one (usually the female) will be dead before many weeks. I personally would not keep one of this species in a 20g high, but it is "possible," sometimes. Certainly not two, esp as they are clearly showing signs of not getting along. Return the one being picked on and keep the "aggressor" if you want one.

Barbs and tetras [also applies to danios and rasboras and some catfish like cories] are shoaling fish, so there must be a group of the species. Tank size impacts this obviously. I would re-home the barb (meaning, take it back to the store) as a 20g is not sufficient space for a group of this species. They must be in groups of 10+, in a 30g tank minimum, alone. With other species, they need more space. Left alone, shoaling fish inevitably become aggressive, it's only a matter of time. This barb will at some point start nipping the fins of the Ram and worse.

I don't know what the tetras are, but again they need a group of at least six for each species, maybe more depending upon the species. A 20g could house one or two or three tetra species, depending which species. I would not get any more until we have sorted out the species.

Never acquire any fish without researching everything about the species. We cannot change what evolution has programmed into the species DNA.

Edit addition...we need to know the water parameters of your tap water, primarily the GH (general or total hardness) and secondarily the pH. Many species have preferences/needs.

Hope this helps.

Byron.

To clarify, I have no tetras, Just the 2 rams, the barb, pleco and crab. I plan on bringing the weaker ram back to the store as I dont wish to watch it die for no reason in my tank. So going forward you think that I should simply have the one ram and rehome the barb as well? The Ph of my tank is currently at 6.5 about, and the temperature goes between 78-79. Havent tested anything else, including hardness. Shame about the crab, I havent been doing fish in years and the store we went to seemed knowledgeable enough, though they made no attempt to discuss the sex of the rams, the fact the barb needs friends, and they made no mention that the crab didnt belong with those fish. And just so I know how you did it, what tipped you off to what kind of ram? Ive been looking up pictures of young german rams and young bolivian rams and it is hard to tell the difference.

 

[Essjay]

Rams have red eye rings with a black vertical stripe through the middle of the eye. Bolivian rams have no red in the eye ring.

It is a common saying in fishkeeping that fins and claws don't mix. Sooner or later it is likely that the crab will try to eat a fish - most likely the rams as they live near the bottom of the tank.


Never believe anything a shop tells you until you have researched it for yourself. Too many of them don't know or don't care and will say anything to make a sale - or not say some thing they should, such as the barb being a shoaling fish or that crabs and fish don't mix.

 

[Byron]

To clarify, I have no tetras, Just the 2 rams, the barb, pleco and crab. I plan on bringing the weaker ram back to the store as I dont wish to watch it die for no reason in my tank. So going forward you think that I should simply have the one ram and rehome the barb as well? The Ph of my tank is currently at 6.5 about, and the temperature goes between 78-79. Havent tested anything else, including hardness. Shame about the crab, I havent been doing fish in years and the store we went to seemed knowledgeable enough, though they made no attempt to discuss the sex of the rams, the fact the barb needs friends, and they made no mention that the crab didnt belong with those fish. And just so I know how you did it, what tipped you off to what kind of ram? Ive been looking up pictures of young german rams and young bolivian rams and it is hard to tell the difference.

The tetras got mentioned as in the store tank, sorry. Yes, return the submissive ram and the Tiger Barb. Emerald/green or regular, it is the same species, and my earlier advice applies. I have no direct experience with crabs, but other members whose judgement I trust have frequently said no to combining with any fish, so I would recommend that too.

The pH is good, we need the GH (check your water supplier, once we know this we can proceed), I am assuming it will be on the soft-moderate soft side with an acidic pH, but we mustn't guess. The Bolivian will be fine with this.

I have had both species of Mikrogeophagus, and spawned both. The Bolivian is my preference, as it is better suited to a community--it can manage with slightly lower temperatures (around 76F) whereas the common or blue ram must have at least 80F. Both have a 4-5 year lifespan; my last Bolivian Male died a year ago now, he was in his ninth year. I will get another if I see any healthy Bolivians locally. The Bolivian is believed to live in solitude except to form a bond and spawn, which is probably why it does so well as something of a centerpiece fish in community tanks. It will own the tank though; mine was in a 5-foot 115g tank with over a hundred characins and cories, and it was amusing to watch him govern the lot of them. A dominant personality, which with other species is usually not problematic, but with their own, deadly.

Here's a photo of a breeding pair of M. altispinosus (first photo) and M. ramirezi (second and third photos). The latter is a wild pair, more colourful than the tank raised fish.

You can consider suitable tetras now, I can comment on species if asked.

 

[exhoudos]

The tetras got mentioned as in the store tank, sorry. Yes, return the submissive ram and the Tiger Barb. Emerald/green or regular, it is the same species, and my earlier advice applies. I have no direct experience with crabs, but other members whose judgement I trust have frequently said no to combining with any fish, so I would recommend that too.

The pH is good, we need the GH (check your water supplier, once we know this we can proceed), I am assuming it will be on the soft-moderate soft side with an acidic pH, but we mustn't guess. The Bolivian will be fine with this.

I have had both species of Mikrogeophagus, and spawned both. The Bolivian is my preference, as it is better suited to a community--it can manage with slightly lower temperatures (around 76F) whereas the common or blue ram must have at least 80F. Both have a 4-5 year lifespan; my last Bolivian Male died a year ago now, he was in his ninth year. I will get another if I see any healthy Bolivians locally. The Bolivian is believed to live in solitude except to form a bond and spawn, which is probably why it does so well as something of a centerpiece fish in community tanks. It will own the tank though; mine was in a 5-foot 115g tank with over a hundred characins and cories, and it was amusing to watch him govern the lot of them. A dominant personality, which with other species is usually not problematic, but with their own, deadly.

Here's a photo of a breeding pair of M. altispinosus (first photo) and M. ramirezi (second and third photos). The latter is a wild pair, more colourful than the tank raised fish.

You can consider suitable tetras now, I can comment on species if asked.

Ok, well I will be going to the store today to bring the barb and the weaker ram back, and the crab I will need to figure out an alternative solution, as that is the animal my stepson chose, so if I remove it I'll have to deal with the fallout for that. So if I return those two fish, you're saying I can get a school of tetras to go in the tank with the ram? If so, what type of tetras should I look for while there?

 

[SeanTrollope]

i think the crab shouldn't be to much of a problem but just keep an eye on it and give it lots of places to hide.

 

[exhoudos]

i think the crab shouldn't be to much of a problem but just keep an eye on it and give it lots of places to hide.

You think so? It has several hiding places that only it can access. My stepson loves the damn crab so if I can just monitor it and keep it that would be amazing.

 

[SeanTrollope]

well yes you just have to make sure it is getting the right food and is not attacking any of the other fish. so the general basics that every aquarium animal needs.

 

[SeanTrollope]

look i'm no expert on crabs but i'm just stating what i know.

ps i also think its really cool and is also we don't see a lot of in aquariums so if you succeed that will be really cool.

 

[Byron]

Oh, I wish things were so straight-forward and simple. Just because you may not see the crab attacking a fish does not mean the fish are not being negatively impacted by the presence of the crab. Fish can be stressed by other creatures they consider possible predators, and essjay noted the dangers. Many fish "sleep" during darkness, but I suspect the crab does not. Most of us here do not subscribe to the "try it and see" method, as the fish will be the losers.

As for tetras...the best thing would be to take a piece of paper and pencil/pen to the store, and write down the names of tetras (or other fish) you like, then provide us with the names. There are well over two hundred "tetra" species, and some will work but a great many will not work here. Numbers in the group can vary depending upon species. Activity levels vary, and you do not want rambunctious active swimming tetras in with rams.

Pencilfish are another group, they are characins like tetras, and some species are fussy or problematic but a few are ideal aquarium fish and well suited to a ram. Pencilfish are frequently suggested as upper level "dither" fish for dwarf cichlids. May or may not find any, depending upon your stores. The most commonly seen is Nannostomus beckfordi that has various common names (more confusion) but this is one pencil I cannot recommend as it often gets nippy. Mine have gone after otos when they enter thee pencil's territory. Hatchetfish are another possible, the smaller species in Carnegiella like the Marble Hatchetfish. Strictly surface dwellers.

Byron.

 

[exhoudos]

look i'm no expert on crabs but i'm just stating what i know.

ps i also think its really cool and is also we don't see a lot of in aquariums so if you succeed that will be really cool.

So far the crab seems to love the bloodworms, in fact the crab has proven quite intelligent as far as how it eats. When I feed the worms, the crab will come out, climb all of the plants scanning for worms in every fake leaf and it also is incredibly good at plucking the worms from the gravel.

 

[Byron]

I missed the pleco previously...wanted to ask, which species of pleco is this? Some like the common pleco get very large, 18 inches. Bristlenose remain under 4 inches. There are a few slightly smaller, but many larger. And they have a considerable impact on the biology especially the larger species.

 

[exhoudos]

I missed the pleco previously...wanted to ask, which species of pleco is this? Some like the common pleco get very large, 18 inches. Bristlenose remain under 4 inches. There are a few slightly smaller, but many larger. And they have a considerable impact on the biology especially the larger species.

Its a Hypostomus plecostomus, or suckermouth. That part i am sure of. I know he will probably need a larger tank soon. What kind of effect or concerns should I be mindful of on my current setup?

 

[betta fish]

A photo of your tank and pleco will help us in the id side of things if possible, the crab is a red clawed crab, I have kept them in the past but just to let you know they are not fully aquatic and will need access to land too they do not last long otherwise, I would suggest you set up a smaller tank for the crab with a separate land area it would be much happier and you will be able to watch some interesting behaviour.